Posted on Jul 9, 2018
Should UCMJ be changed or modified for Reservists?
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Far too often the necessity for UCMJ violation, mainly in handing down company and field grade Article 15, has presented itself without any result. Perhaps I do not understand the UCMJ correctly enough to advise my commander on the matter?
It seems as though there is a need to communicate to Reservists that there are penalties for actions and that they are not absolved of them because of their part time status.
Just curious if I am uninformed or if others have experienced this also. What are your thoughts?
It seems as though there is a need to communicate to Reservists that there are penalties for actions and that they are not absolved of them because of their part time status.
Just curious if I am uninformed or if others have experienced this also. What are your thoughts?
UCMJ
JAG
Commanders
CSM
Discipline
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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I feel your pain, I just need a little more information. Since you did not elaborate on what results were missing, I can only guess as to what your results you are looking for. I ass/u/me you are aware of the fact that part-time Soldiers create a part time UCMJ system. Soldiers in the USAR are only being subject to UCMJ when in some sort of military status (Drill, AT). Perhaps an example of an issue where a Soldier got away with something you thought should have resulted in a punishment, would be more helpful in a my pinpointing a more helpful response. I can't decipher if you have an issue of Commanders not enforcing the standard or Commanders being over zealous in trying to punish Soldiers not under their authority at the time of the offense. Personally in my experience, I ran into Commanders wanting to punish personnel for civilian offenses between drills more than not punishing offenses that occurred on drill status. To muddy the waters even more, members of the Guard only fall under UCMJ when federalized, (Title 10 orders) otherwise they fall under a state uniform code of military justice, which vary from state to state.
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CSM Rick Cassel
This may not be all bad from your position. As a SFC he/she won't lose any rank with an Article 15 anyway. (Hence I ass/u/me the original context of your post.) It seems to me what you are really looking for is a way to hold a SFC accountable. Might I suggest an possible course of action. Should that SFC leave the unit, in all probability he/she will require a change of rater NCOER. On face value I would say they did not meet the standard under block "C" Character.
You, as the CSM, I once again assume, review all Senior NCO NCOERs. I would ensure that young PL/Rater writes an appropriate NCOER on this SFC. The PL will need in all probability need a senior reviewer any way, so get them involved as well. I would also have my Battalion Commander inform the Company Commander that his Senior rater comments should note the negative action as well. Should they stay in the unit, you can still put the comments on their annual NCOER. I am in no way suggesting you act with malice to destroy this guy/gal career, but you can use appropriate justified action in this situation. Surely there is a paper trail on their action or should I say inaction.
Last but not least to your original question about the UCMJ, now that think I know your context. No I do not want change the UCMJ to give Field Grade officers the ability to take rank from senior NCOs.
You, as the CSM, I once again assume, review all Senior NCO NCOERs. I would ensure that young PL/Rater writes an appropriate NCOER on this SFC. The PL will need in all probability need a senior reviewer any way, so get them involved as well. I would also have my Battalion Commander inform the Company Commander that his Senior rater comments should note the negative action as well. Should they stay in the unit, you can still put the comments on their annual NCOER. I am in no way suggesting you act with malice to destroy this guy/gal career, but you can use appropriate justified action in this situation. Surely there is a paper trail on their action or should I say inaction.
Last but not least to your original question about the UCMJ, now that think I know your context. No I do not want change the UCMJ to give Field Grade officers the ability to take rank from senior NCOs.
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CSM (Join to see)
Failed to report to AT? Failed to report to BA? IS this a trend for the Soldier or a "one time" instance? Has he/she been counseled in the past regarding this issue? General Counseling's ON PAPER are always a good idea when looking to take it to the next level. If I may, what exactly were the circumstances? Too many variables to offer sound advise. To answer your main question. NO there should be no difference in UCMJ when I comes to the Military PERIOD. AD,Guard,Reserve, it matters not. In my opinion.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
You stated the Guard is otherwise
Governed by a state version of a UCMJ. Maybe the states can work together to unify their version ..
Governed by a state version of a UCMJ. Maybe the states can work together to unify their version ..
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
CSM (Join to see) maybe this is out of my league(I’m Ret AF)
If this is repetitive .. is there, or was some complacency in the command heirarchy ( before new command staff came in)that might of allowed this behavior to take place? If so I think one would know who shares the blame....
If this is repetitive .. is there, or was some complacency in the command heirarchy ( before new command staff came in)that might of allowed this behavior to take place? If so I think one would know who shares the blame....
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This is an interesting question that has been brought up in water cooler conversation before. First off, saying "reservists" needs to be defined. As an Army Reservist, we fall under Title 10 of the US Code all the time - drill, AT, ADOS, ADT, whatever. As pointed out by CSM Rick Cassel, National Guard members are Title 32 at the state level during Drill weekends. They do however transfer to Title 10 at Annual Training, ADOS, or going to federal army training like BCT and AIT. Your question really drives home two main issues. First, in either COMPO, even when under title 32, both are subject to UCMJ when NOT on IDT status. The States have their own version of UCMJ for title 32 and a few have adopted the Federal standards. Second when on AT orders, even if the Soldier screws up, not many commanders want to go through the goat rope and legal two-step of a court martial, unless its a really serious issue. Felonies, sexual assault, rape, murder, violent acts, etc. Those are the no-brainer-going to the SJA for processing. Offenses less that that off a federal post, most RC units just process the soldier out of the ARNG/USAR for the good of the force (so an SJA told me). In the end, changing the UCMJ is a congressional issue as they are laws passed by congress - not a DoD level publication. More importantly, commanders at each level, need to want to spend the time and resources to prosecute these knuckle heads which means bringing people in on orders to testify which can include TDY costs if not local. Therefore, to save some pain, you'll see a lot of Article 15s (non judicial punishments). What I would tell commanders it to make sure the SJA comes out annually and gives a in depth briefing on what Soldiers should expect if they screw up. There is no coverage because of a reserve status. Just a lot of pain all around including the families of the Soldiers. Just my 2-cents.
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CSM (Join to see)
Sir, exactly my frustration. Evennthe Article 15 is not enough. Not unless I can pull them in for BA for a month for no pay.
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CSM (Join to see)
As a BN CSM you have a lot of things in your tool box to make an example of this individual. Conversely, if you do not have your facts or you base this UCMJ action on inference, emotion ( because this SM is a JA) you could be setting yourself and more importantly your BN Commander up for failure as this E7 can always go to IG...Just a thought.
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I think the frustration I have... and I suspect the one that you're alluding to CSM (Join to see) is just how difficult it is to bring formal charges and try by court-marshal when the situation warrants. We are all only on duty a couple days a month, and cutting orders to pin down and fry a shit bird just isn't going to happen without a very high level of visibility and interest. Offenders know this (or find out soon after consulting counsel) and play chicken with leadership, daring them to try under court-marshal.
Article 15s aren't easy to administer either if the accused fights at all, even if you have them dead to rights.
I have had several situations like this over the years. Some of the stories are pretty crazy.
Article 15s aren't easy to administer either if the accused fights at all, even if you have them dead to rights.
I have had several situations like this over the years. Some of the stories are pretty crazy.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
I was at a Harvest Bare Training class and the instructor (an A1C ).
Was showing an improper procedure to make a roux. I questioned his method.. (he used
Salad oil and cornstarch ). And flour was right there on the cart .. I decided to let him F-up.. his version of S.O.S. Was s***** ! And I told him so.. We went to the MSGT
In charge and he started spewing forth some stuff that he said I said
I said none of it’s true., I four classmates that can dispute his comments.. So where are they?
“They’re hostile witnesses!” He said.. “Oh, they’re on SSGT
Herrst’s side ?”... Get ourt of here!
SSGT. Herrst, You stay ! So far you made some good observations but they’re piss’g people off.. I’ll back you up! Can I see that critique?
(I’d been writing as I go). He looked at it. And gave it back. When we are done, you give this to me personally ! When over I done that.. We went back to our tent.
We got cleaned up and ready for the graduation.. We’re all lined up and that A1C comes over., “your not
Graduating !” So I went back to the tent and waited.. The MSGT comes and hands me an envelope
With a 4x6 gold framed parchment
Paper. “You’re the only one getting one of these.!” I looked at it and put it in my portfolio. After I got back to Langley I got a letter a couple week’s later... Asking Togo to the Camp in Aridzona to be a class instructor. I heard some not nice things militarily happened to that A1C .. that’s far as I need to go on that sit-rep... He was part I
Of a clique of a former leader of that camp.. They finally got the thing cleaned up but shut that camp temporarily. 3 months.
When I was ready To go. We got
Mobilized and I went to Egypt instead of Aridzona.. I did go later..
We were there 6 months.. no actually 4, it seemed like 6.. When I was ready to leave a new Airman came In.. it was the former A1C from camp 4 in FLA. I told the guy in charge to keep an eye on him.
He tends to take a lot of shortcuts
That’ll ruin your food. and I left to go catch our ride to the flightline..
They’ll find out soon enough at that time .. We had an awesome flight
Home .. to Germany,, Azores, then Myrtle Beach, NC then home.to Langley.. I got a note a couple weeks later from the guy in charge.
He sent that AMN back to Homestead.. He was e’thing I said he was.. mainly a fraud !...
Was showing an improper procedure to make a roux. I questioned his method.. (he used
Salad oil and cornstarch ). And flour was right there on the cart .. I decided to let him F-up.. his version of S.O.S. Was s***** ! And I told him so.. We went to the MSGT
In charge and he started spewing forth some stuff that he said I said
I said none of it’s true., I four classmates that can dispute his comments.. So where are they?
“They’re hostile witnesses!” He said.. “Oh, they’re on SSGT
Herrst’s side ?”... Get ourt of here!
SSGT. Herrst, You stay ! So far you made some good observations but they’re piss’g people off.. I’ll back you up! Can I see that critique?
(I’d been writing as I go). He looked at it. And gave it back. When we are done, you give this to me personally ! When over I done that.. We went back to our tent.
We got cleaned up and ready for the graduation.. We’re all lined up and that A1C comes over., “your not
Graduating !” So I went back to the tent and waited.. The MSGT comes and hands me an envelope
With a 4x6 gold framed parchment
Paper. “You’re the only one getting one of these.!” I looked at it and put it in my portfolio. After I got back to Langley I got a letter a couple week’s later... Asking Togo to the Camp in Aridzona to be a class instructor. I heard some not nice things militarily happened to that A1C .. that’s far as I need to go on that sit-rep... He was part I
Of a clique of a former leader of that camp.. They finally got the thing cleaned up but shut that camp temporarily. 3 months.
When I was ready To go. We got
Mobilized and I went to Egypt instead of Aridzona.. I did go later..
We were there 6 months.. no actually 4, it seemed like 6.. When I was ready to leave a new Airman came In.. it was the former A1C from camp 4 in FLA. I told the guy in charge to keep an eye on him.
He tends to take a lot of shortcuts
That’ll ruin your food. and I left to go catch our ride to the flightline..
They’ll find out soon enough at that time .. We had an awesome flight
Home .. to Germany,, Azores, then Myrtle Beach, NC then home.to Langley.. I got a note a couple weeks later from the guy in charge.
He sent that AMN back to Homestead.. He was e’thing I said he was.. mainly a fraud !...
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