Posted on Dec 16, 2014
Why do E-3's and below feel like they don't have respect E-4?
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I feel I know the answer to this question but I want others opinions? Especially SNCO's.
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 8
In any formation you can find those people who were given one promotion too many, and those people have difficulty gaining and maintaining respect.
With the SPC, the biggest problem, I think, is the automatic advancement. Anyone who can stick out TIS and TIG requirements only has to be able to pass the APFT to gain that advancement, no demonstrations of leadership, competency, or education required. We wait to spring that on troops all at once for SGT.
In addition, there is a tendency among some leaders to lump all junior enlisted together, regardless of grade. The respect is much more likely to follow if more senior leaders would make the distinction in assignments, additional duties, expectations....
Personally, I think the Air Force got it backward by eliminating the E-4 Sergeant rank. In the Army, I'd like to do away with the Specialist rank entirely. E-4 would be an earned promotion to Corporal, which would (should) be treated as a genuine junior NCO.
With the SPC, the biggest problem, I think, is the automatic advancement. Anyone who can stick out TIS and TIG requirements only has to be able to pass the APFT to gain that advancement, no demonstrations of leadership, competency, or education required. We wait to spring that on troops all at once for SGT.
In addition, there is a tendency among some leaders to lump all junior enlisted together, regardless of grade. The respect is much more likely to follow if more senior leaders would make the distinction in assignments, additional duties, expectations....
Personally, I think the Air Force got it backward by eliminating the E-4 Sergeant rank. In the Army, I'd like to do away with the Specialist rank entirely. E-4 would be an earned promotion to Corporal, which would (should) be treated as a genuine junior NCO.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
I would totally agree with you SFC(P) Robert White. I really think E-4 in both services should go back Junior NCO as it should be, so that all members of the rank are equal to those in the Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. As it stand now, they are just senior Private/Airman, who depending on the Unit they are with, and the local attitude (read current leadership) may expect more of their E-4s (than others had). Like I said in while I was in the 82nd, we didn't have Corporals in 1989, but in Alpha Company, 1-325th AIR there were plenty of Specialist who were serving as Team Leaders on the Regular basis. Not all of them were on E-4 (P) either, they happen to be best man for job within the Squad or up to Platoon level so not to cause to much disruption within the Company. In fact, usually in our Platoon at least most of the E-4 did get the respect, now our Company Supply Clerk who was known for his ability to disappear when he smell a detail coming in, and being POG in Airborne Infantry Company, not so much so. A lot of the respect factor, to goes along with the attitude that NCOs show toward the respective E-4 too, it goes a long way making an impression to E-3s and E-2s on how much respect they should or shouldn't. Yes, I know it shouldn't, but like a lot of things, they pick up on the tensions too at all levels, and most of the time emulate without thinking about it. I had it done to me, I called my on my friend in my platoon on it, after our command element had change, and they thought I was sandbagging, he blew it off like he was just joking, what he didn't seem to get was it got old a long time ago. At the time this guy was an E-4 (P), and it did bother me that emulate his squad leader with same silly harassment, lost a lot of respect I had for him, thought he had much better character than that. Well like I had said earlier, it all how you present yourself too. It is fine line, you want to show the NCOs and Officers you know what you doing, and you have leadership skills. With that said, you don't really want to totally alienate yourself from the rest of your squad or your buddies in the unit that from the Ranks.
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It all boils down to experience, maturity, intelligence and maybe jealousy. How many ways is there to skin a cat? Why is your way better? Even though we may complete the task differently, we still end up with the same result. If I am the E-4 and I have to answer for the task, then I need to have a full understanding of that task. A huge part of being a good leader is being a better follower. You will be amazed at how much a person can learn when their mouth is closed and their ears are open. All too often young warriors are too busy talking because they THINK they have the answers instead of listening to someone who actually KNOWS the answers. This is not the case with everyone of course. You do have warriors that will admit that they do not know and will take the time to listen and learn and you will find that those warriors become the best leaders. It's all part of the learning curve SrA Hudson. Mentor, Mentor, Mentor!!
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Very true MSGT Danny McDow Experience and Jealousy are probably the #1 and #2 reasons. Maturity does play a factor into it for all to many E-1, E-2, and E-3 are what like range from the age of 17 to 22. Intelligence somewhat to lesser degree, sometimes I would agree they tend to THINK THEY KNOW HOW to do the task at hand, but honestly, almost any task out there, someone has usually found easier way to do it. Just getting people to LISTEN to YOUR way of doing it. Like you said, Mentor, Mentor, Mentor!
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In my experience in professional leadership outside the military and my (limited) experience in the military, I think we hand out E-2 through E-4 ranks like participation trophies. Most people get in as a PFC or SPC through waivers and loopholes. I feel like not enough people actually earn their ranks through proper time and discipline. If we made everyone start at E-1 and FORCE them to work their way through the ranks, then E-4 SPC would actually mean something. Although another response from a 1st SGT made a good point. Lets eliminate SPC entirely and make E-4 a permanent NCO position so people cant just get it with TIG.
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