Posted on May 30, 2018
What is the recommended punishment for a soldier who is FTR while on Extra Duty?
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Need help on the matter, SM gets a summarized art 15 for being FTR, 14 days extra duty, last day of his ED he is late to his timeline and misses movement to his Extra Duty location, I counsel him recommending him for a Field Grade for being FTR once again and I also counseled him on a emotional/spiritual level , trying to figure out the root of the problem. My Platoon SGT comes back to me and voices a concern, that the recommended punishment is too harsh and does not fit the crime , he wants me to do something lesser or something like a trial period , I cant find any regulation on the matter and I want to make sure that whatever I type its legal and legit, not something made up. Where should I be looking into? AR 27-10 is not helping me or maybe I'm reading over something.
UCMJ
Article 15
Legal Services
Posted >1 y ago
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I would not jump from a summarized AR15 to a FG, summary is a non punitive corrective action. If he warrants and AR15 then my recommendation would be a Company Grade. First find out why the Soldier missed his duty call. If there are circumstances that would otherwise call for a staunch conversation or a written counseling then why not do that. The whole reason we have corrective processes in the military is to acknowledge issue for correcting and take action. To compound punishment over different issues, particularly those that may have contributing factors is not what it is all about. Do the crime, do the time! A FG is a show stopper for a Soldier, be sure that the crime (or issue) warrants ending a Soldiers career. Take all matters into consideration including the reasonable man theory. What would the average man Soldier had done in this Soldiers place. Thank you for your service.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
"summary is a non punitive corrective action." Absolutely. I would argue that the entire Article 15 process for at least junior enlisted is designed to allow a soldier to screw up and not ruin his/her career. Too often it is used as a crutch for poor leadership ability. Sometimes there are reasons beyond what you assume.
We had come back from NTC as Engineer Augmentees (Army National Guard) and I had released the guys for the evening to go home and an 8 AM formation time the next day. Next morning, one soldier was AWOL, so I sent his team leader and squad leader to find him and bring him to me. The First Sergeant and I were discussing what we wanted to do with this soldier, when I heard a knock at the door and his squad leader brought him into room. Read him a bit of the riot act and asked for his side of the story. Apparently he had been living with his mother and step father and while he was at NTC, they had moved, not told him about it or wear, and had just left all his stuff on the front porch in boxes. WTF, I confirmed this with his squad leader and sent him back to his platoon. I hit him with some extra duty and called it a day.
Now I will admit that the First Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, Squad Leader and I were almost rolling on the floor after that soldier left the room. What do you say to a Soldier that just told you his mom had moved, not told him where and left his stuff on the porch?
We had come back from NTC as Engineer Augmentees (Army National Guard) and I had released the guys for the evening to go home and an 8 AM formation time the next day. Next morning, one soldier was AWOL, so I sent his team leader and squad leader to find him and bring him to me. The First Sergeant and I were discussing what we wanted to do with this soldier, when I heard a knock at the door and his squad leader brought him into room. Read him a bit of the riot act and asked for his side of the story. Apparently he had been living with his mother and step father and while he was at NTC, they had moved, not told him about it or wear, and had just left all his stuff on the front porch in boxes. WTF, I confirmed this with his squad leader and sent him back to his platoon. I hit him with some extra duty and called it a day.
Now I will admit that the First Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant, Squad Leader and I were almost rolling on the floor after that soldier left the room. What do you say to a Soldier that just told you his mom had moved, not told him where and left his stuff on the porch?
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SPC Rick HUnt
A soldiers leader is the best leader. Well said CSM. My brother is a 1Sgt an absolutely loves helping an talking to soldier's, Has command opposition because after all these years he can make a difference. Even them knowing his stance they still wanted to talk him into CSM. Be safe brother
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I would first hear the reason, some times life throws a curveball. if it is not a Life or death situation, then, in my counseling statement, I would recommend another Article 15, this time pushing for a field grade, then I would also recommend to the commander a flag and bar, and possible chapter. Other things I would recommend, if the Troop lives off post, putting the Troop in the barracks for the duration of his NJP, living off post is a privilege not a right, and Command can restrict the Troop to the barracks, and chow hall. Have the troop Accompanied by an NCO, (yeah I know this sucks for the NCO, but its one of the reasons we get paid), have the troop sign in at Either the SD desks 1594, or CQ's 1594 every hour. You can get creative.
One other thing - your PSG does not have to agree with your recommendation, he can rebut the recommendation when and if the counseling statement goes to the commander/1SG - a slap on the wrist in this instance does more harm then good IMHO, as the Troop should have already learned about screwing up when the Troop received the NJP, and it sends a signal to the other members of the platoon that the behavior is not only tolerated, but is no big deal.
One other thing - your PSG does not have to agree with your recommendation, he can rebut the recommendation when and if the counseling statement goes to the commander/1SG - a slap on the wrist in this instance does more harm then good IMHO, as the Troop should have already learned about screwing up when the Troop received the NJP, and it sends a signal to the other members of the platoon that the behavior is not only tolerated, but is no big deal.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
PV2 Dan O - Also - the statement "its just FTR" is a problem in and of itself -The troop missed a movement - failing to be where your are supposed to be at the time you are required to be there can have serious consequences, not just for you, but for your battle buddies - it takes time of the NCO's to track you down, it causes delays in training, and if you are in a combat environment, it can endanger your life and the lives of those brothers to your left and right.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
PV2 Dan O - I want to say thank you for proving my last point of my original post. The "punishment" part is up to the Commander to decide - I would recommend a FG, was I a hard NCO - absolutely - but I was also very fair - to me, this troop already had an opportunity to correct themselves by receiving a summarized, and I am sure that the reason for the summarized was more then 1 instance of infractions. More like he had a verbal counseling, then a paper counseling, and then the summarized.
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What was the original infraction that he was doing NJP for? If they are related and indicate a problem, then I think recommending another Company grade is warranted.
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MCPO (Join to see)
I agree. If the two infractions are the same, the troop is showing a pattern and the member didn’t learn anything from extra duties. If he’s a high performer and worthy of your efforts, you might want to dig a little deeper. Look at what’s happening in his personal life. (You might need to talk with friends to get a clearer picture.) Certain things can look normal on the surface but when you peel back the layers you might find the real reason for your troops lack of effort. A counseling on his emotional / spiritual levels combined with failure to report are symptomatic of depression and alcoholism. If the member has this going on then treatment might be an option that SM has thought of yet. (I’ve seen this before.) Harsh punishment will only make matters worse if what is really needed is professional help.
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