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Africa
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Lets ask our 2 resident experts who are in Djibouti at the moment CPT (Join to see) , SSG V. Michelle Woods What's your take on this question?
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CPT (Join to see)
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca This is DEFINITELY not a lost cause. This is actually a great case study in Stability and COIN when you have good HN, TCC, and Partnership support. We are being extremely effective in reducing the effectiveness of extremist groups and developing the local goodwill towards Western entities so that they can not gain a foot hold through local support. If you geographically review where the threats are here, HOA is stable with the exception of Al Shabbab. If you get into border countries like the CAR, DRC, South Sudan, etc and you will see less stability and more extremist groups. Given, Al Shabbab is really picking up operations in Kenya lately, but that seems to be more based on them trying to expand their control with losing a bit of a hold in Somalia. While I think they are still a very valid threat, the TCCs and our LOEs are definitely having an impact on them and they are losing their overall capabilities. Further, we are helping drive economic factors in the region which will help the stability remain once we leave...which won't be any time soon. The MINIMUM you can perform stability operations is a decade after you establish initial security. We are doing amazing things here and having an amazing impact. Strategically speaking, we sit along very vital maritime routes that are potentially threatened by extremists and a destabilized region. These routes have a tremendous impact economically on our country. We also are strategically positions for SO to conduct missions and operations against other extremist groups. With the French maintaining a strong, COIN and AT presence in West Africa, there is a lot being done to stabilize this continent. West Africa still has a long way to go and hopefully, that will pull the interior into it. Frankly, I like the point that Africa is WAY under the radar. The public has generally not had much of an outcry about "bring our troops home" etc in regards to our mission here. Due to this, there is less politically driving operations here and that is allowing military operations to be extremely effective. We have an amazing balance of operational, humanitarian, and FID capabilities that should be studied to figure out what is so effective about our balance and the coalition developed to create regional stability (even if it is a UN mission). This is something I am certain I could write one heck of a dissertation on if I had the time. I believe in the mission here (yes, I drank the Cool-Aid), and I think that our ability to be effective here without having to push the major warfighting effort is something that needs to be bottled up and drank again in the future.
SSG V. Michelle Woods You're in DJ? Are you over in the PAO shop for CJTF? I'm up in J-44.
SSG V. Michelle Woods You're in DJ? Are you over in the PAO shop for CJTF? I'm up in J-44.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Im in Liberia y'all. But definitely not a lost cause. Geez this place has made me feel more appreciated for our help than any other place.
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SSG Timothy McCoy
SSG V. Michelle Woods, keep your hand clean and washed and your ... hip pockets down. Be looking for yu upon your return.
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Having returned from Africa recently, I think I will weigh in.
First: what is the "cause" to be lost?
If it is to promote stability, prosperity, and degrade extremism, than we are on point. Stability sometimes means a status quo that is distasteful, but better than the likely alternative. Read: Libya. The Kenyattas of the world might not be modern-day saints, but they can be reasoned with and often have goals that mesh with ours.
There are a lot of bad actors on the continent, most of them local in scope, but nasty, barbaric purveyors of the worst parts of humanity. Trafficking in persons, forced prostitution - often of children, child soldiers, rare animal poaching, rape... all are common activities of these people. Some of these groups have gotten a little more enterprising of late, attacking shipping, industry, or government targets.
If the "cause" is to counter corruption, then the cause is definitely lost. Let the State Department give it a try. Maybe they will make some inroads. I can say with conviction that the vast majority of US and Foreign aid go to government officials and not for the intended purpose. If we want to do good deeds in Africa, we would be best served to send expertise and deliver it ourselves than try to get them to do it for themselves. The continent is just not wired that way.
African people are impressive in their self-reliance and work ethic. They aspire to prosper and become players in commerce and economic development. They have the natural resources to get there. They just need a good friend to help them realize their goals.
If it isn't us, China, Russia, and to a lesser extent others would be happy to do it for their own purposes. They are busy working towards that right now.
First: what is the "cause" to be lost?
If it is to promote stability, prosperity, and degrade extremism, than we are on point. Stability sometimes means a status quo that is distasteful, but better than the likely alternative. Read: Libya. The Kenyattas of the world might not be modern-day saints, but they can be reasoned with and often have goals that mesh with ours.
There are a lot of bad actors on the continent, most of them local in scope, but nasty, barbaric purveyors of the worst parts of humanity. Trafficking in persons, forced prostitution - often of children, child soldiers, rare animal poaching, rape... all are common activities of these people. Some of these groups have gotten a little more enterprising of late, attacking shipping, industry, or government targets.
If the "cause" is to counter corruption, then the cause is definitely lost. Let the State Department give it a try. Maybe they will make some inroads. I can say with conviction that the vast majority of US and Foreign aid go to government officials and not for the intended purpose. If we want to do good deeds in Africa, we would be best served to send expertise and deliver it ourselves than try to get them to do it for themselves. The continent is just not wired that way.
African people are impressive in their self-reliance and work ethic. They aspire to prosper and become players in commerce and economic development. They have the natural resources to get there. They just need a good friend to help them realize their goals.
If it isn't us, China, Russia, and to a lesser extent others would be happy to do it for their own purposes. They are busy working towards that right now.
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SSG (Join to see)
There isn't a solution that any other country could offer 1SG; China is doing it right though.
Only a 'true' independence can help Africa. Isolation from all countries. There are a lot of resources in Africa that are being exposed under the wrong personnel.
I know Africa would experience a time of turmoil if that happened, what hasn't Africa been through already. Africa needs to handle its own problems with enlightenment; education; and righteous leadership.
Unfortunately there is too much chance for error on the side of national security, so independent is far far from today.
Only a 'true' independence can help Africa. Isolation from all countries. There are a lot of resources in Africa that are being exposed under the wrong personnel.
I know Africa would experience a time of turmoil if that happened, what hasn't Africa been through already. Africa needs to handle its own problems with enlightenment; education; and righteous leadership.
Unfortunately there is too much chance for error on the side of national security, so independent is far far from today.
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1SG (Join to see)
What China is doing - and under the radar, Brazil and Russia - is build infrastructure for the purposes of extracting resources under favorable terms. This is colonialism, they just call it something else. The African leaders love these projects; they bring jobs (funnelled to preferred individuals from the right tribe or with the right checkbook) and a steady revenue stream once export starts. I wouldn't call that "doing it right". Shrewd perhaps. The thing I will concede that China and others are doing right is they are wisely not planting their flag in the ground.
Other than that, it is the 1880s scramble for Africa all over again.
I agree philosophically with what you are saying, but I just don't think that will work in anything less than two generations. Right now, there is an educated class, mostly going to European Universities. Unfortunately, education is a weapons system, used to leverage positions of power too often for the purposes of self-enrichment.
I met a lot of good and genuine people in Africa. The potential is there. But as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Other than that, it is the 1880s scramble for Africa all over again.
I agree philosophically with what you are saying, but I just don't think that will work in anything less than two generations. Right now, there is an educated class, mostly going to European Universities. Unfortunately, education is a weapons system, used to leverage positions of power too often for the purposes of self-enrichment.
I met a lot of good and genuine people in Africa. The potential is there. But as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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SSG (Join to see)
I'm in agreement 1SG. But I will say the youth\ future leaders can make a difference. In the grand scheme of things, this Chinese movement can be a means to further a slowly growing economy of a continent.
When the time is right, the countries of Africa should take hold of the opportunity that would be present to them; the one of a stable economy, and the ability to set rules and regulations.... without corruption.
When the time is right, the countries of Africa should take hold of the opportunity that would be present to them; the one of a stable economy, and the ability to set rules and regulations.... without corruption.
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Lost Cause? No. However, IMHO we have been going about it the wrong way. The governments of Africa need to be able to stand up and self sustain the things that we bring for it all to work. The problem is that they don't have the economic means to do so with much of what we do there.
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