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In my 10 years I've taken a number of PT tests and have come to see that if you're not a 270 or better soldier then you're not good enough. Why is it that we do that to each other? Not everyone is going to be a 270-300 PT master. Its as if a black cloud floats over you. case in point, I had major surgery in Jan of 2010. Of course I was on con leave and on profile to recover. When it came time to take a PT test some months later I scored in the 180 neighborhood (Im normally a 270ish) which is passing, but I got looked at like I was a dirt bag. And to add insult to injury I was an E-5 so I was looked at as a lackluster NCO. Can someone explain to me why is this happening in today's army?
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APFT
APFT
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 38
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You can be dumber than a bag of hammers and continue to get promoted if you have the right badges and a high PT score.
I don't like it but it's just the way it is. It's too easy for leaders who do not know their soldiers capabilities to judge them by their PT score.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Sir, I could not agree more. To often in my 12 years of service have I seen soldiers who are bright, confident and critical problem solvers get passed over as if the were invisible. Often due to the fact they have low (but passing) APFT and weapons scores. Yet people that are often times a waste of oxegen get pushed up the ranks.
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LTC (Join to see)
I disagree, I've found the opposite to be true. Low APFT score and fat often makes the grade.
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My feeling has always been that the Army set the standard at 180 points, 60 in each event. Everyone should meet that standard. If it happens that you are more physically gifted than your peers and can score much higher, that's great. The real issue I have is that so many people equate a high PT score with good leadership skills or job competence. I'll take someone with a 200 PT score that knows how to do their job and follow instruction over a 300 PT score that knows nothing about their job.
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CSM James Winslow
Because we don't have a way to measure MOS competency. When the Army decided to make PT scores a promotion additive instead of MOS or SQT tests, then PT became a priority. What benefits a person in this way will always become the yardstick with which we measure each other. Character and job competency were once important- now it's PT. Go figure.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Bournival, I agree that this perception exists and the only thing I can say to those who view things this way is a hearty "LOL."
Once they can make a convincing and logical argument as to how a high PT score directly correlates to cyber-related knowledge and skills and/or investigative skills as an agent [who doesn't perform arrests, gunfights, etc.] - then I'll start worrying about it.
For now, I'm happy with my 220-225ish range.
Once they can make a convincing and logical argument as to how a high PT score directly correlates to cyber-related knowledge and skills and/or investigative skills as an agent [who doesn't perform arrests, gunfights, etc.] - then I'll start worrying about it.
For now, I'm happy with my 220-225ish range.
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SFC (Join to see)
You are so correct SGT B. I think it stems from different divisions and their missions actually. For instance, at Bragg-82nd side is all brawn and that spells SUCCESS for them, they are hard charging runners, ruckers, PT studs, and etc along those lines. Versus, say Walter Reed Medical area, their SUCCESSes are centered around more educational opportunities, setting and exceeding your educational goals, and etc along those lines.
IMO, whatever your mission is that's how you measure the SUCCESS of your organization, and if PT studding pushes the 82nd to meet their outstanding mission, then that's how they'll achieve their success. That's of course, IMO.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
Being a part of aviation for the bulk of my professional career i have witnessed some very stupid things. I had been assigned a new soldier. This was a good soldier, kind hearted and hard working. the issue was this soldier had no earthly business in aviation. He could ruck 250lbs, bench 475lbs, and maxed his PT out everytime. The issue was he could not read or understand TM's, nor could he identify simple tools. On the off chance he was allowed to touch my aircraft, he broke it. I watched this soldier push an OH58 out of the hanger by himself using the VHF antenna!!? Which by the way has a big black painted lettering that says no push, no pull. Of course he ripped it completly off, and i had to take him to the 1SG to explain why. Even though this soldier could not perform a single iota of his assigned MOS, he was quickley promoted for exceeding army standards (ie breathing, walking, speaking, obeying orders) and mastered the units PT program. This soldier was a great friend, and a wonderful human being, but was dangerous in the hanger.
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Look at it this way, all the things that ACTUALLY matter, like intelligence, compassion, proficiency, dedication, honor, integrity, honesty, selflessness, judgement, common sense, etc... are all really difficult to quantify in a meaningful, objective way. So, we latch on to something that's very straight forward, like PT, because it's easy to train and quantify. It's easy to measure. The alternative is to admit that there is no accurate cookie cutter metric for evaluating personnel, and we can't have that...Generic "Z x Y= Good Soldier" is much easier than meaningful counseling, mentorship, development, etc...
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
I think you make a good point that it is easier to quantify math and numbers in order to see value in your soldiers. Sure, its so much easier than sitting down with each of your soldiers, counseling them, meeting thier families and learning what kind of person they are. Crunching some numbers is far easier than trusting your NCO's and Jr NCO's judgement about drive and performance. However I think its that Lazy idiology that allows horrible leaders to take hold over our military. As a civilian leader i would always prefer those i work with to be fit and healthy (its proven they are happier people) but at the same time i dont want an Army of brainless order following zombies. I want a team of cohesive critical problem solvers.
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