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So, I'm a bit pissed off right now as I just discovered that my previous unit gave me an AAM as my PCS award. For background, 3 years I ran the Battalion's Combatives program by myself (which actually served units from the whole Korean peninsula, from Area I to IV). I was the only instructor the whole time I was there, with periodic unofficial assistance from battle buddies when they could spare time. I worked alone in the building as an E5/E6 with just about zero oversight because that was the trust I earned. Without going into too many details, I conducted many Basic and Tactical courses, assisted with training for other units, and ran and assisted with numerous tournaments (even helping stand up the USAG Daegu Quarterly tournaments). All this isn't even including my additional duties (BN NEO Rep, UPL, Master Driver, EOL).
The award was submitted as an ARCOM (with my recommender wanting to submit an MSM, but pretty much knowing that would get shot down due to my rank, and I personally don't think I did enough to warrant one), but it was downgraded, and I'm pretty sure I know why. First, my award was submitted late. It was submitted a month before I was to leave and was told that I would need a letter of lateness. Ok, cool, I know the drill, been there done that. I accepted that I would just have them mail it to me. So I'm at my new unit, and inquire to my old one about my award, as I'd heard nothing. Get it in the email, and notice the downgrade. Not at the BDE level, not at the BN level, AT THE COMPANY LEVEL. It never even made it to the BDE Commander. Not only that, but the date on the award was 2 MONTHS later than it was originally submitted. It seems to me like they sat on it, realized it then tried to fast track an AAM instead of explaining to the BDE CDR why it was so late. I was under the impression that even if it were to be recommended for a downgrade, it would still need to go the approval authority for the level of initial award recommendation and they would take the subordinate commander's recommendation into consideration before approving the downgrade or not. Am I incorrect? I apologize for the rant, but I feel robbed. Should I appeal the award? Suck it up, drink water, and drive on? I'd be less pissed if the write up was bad or if it actually made it to the BDE commander and he made the decision, but seeing as if the company and bn tried to rush it through.... I dunno. All advice appreciated.
The award was submitted as an ARCOM (with my recommender wanting to submit an MSM, but pretty much knowing that would get shot down due to my rank, and I personally don't think I did enough to warrant one), but it was downgraded, and I'm pretty sure I know why. First, my award was submitted late. It was submitted a month before I was to leave and was told that I would need a letter of lateness. Ok, cool, I know the drill, been there done that. I accepted that I would just have them mail it to me. So I'm at my new unit, and inquire to my old one about my award, as I'd heard nothing. Get it in the email, and notice the downgrade. Not at the BDE level, not at the BN level, AT THE COMPANY LEVEL. It never even made it to the BDE Commander. Not only that, but the date on the award was 2 MONTHS later than it was originally submitted. It seems to me like they sat on it, realized it then tried to fast track an AAM instead of explaining to the BDE CDR why it was so late. I was under the impression that even if it were to be recommended for a downgrade, it would still need to go the approval authority for the level of initial award recommendation and they would take the subordinate commander's recommendation into consideration before approving the downgrade or not. Am I incorrect? I apologize for the rant, but I feel robbed. Should I appeal the award? Suck it up, drink water, and drive on? I'd be less pissed if the write up was bad or if it actually made it to the BDE commander and he made the decision, but seeing as if the company and bn tried to rush it through.... I dunno. All advice appreciated.
Posted in these groups: 
Unit Awards
Awards
Unit Awards Awards
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 252
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Only award I every got in my 20 years of service thatI cared about were my jump wings.
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MSG William Hesser
CSM David Porterfield - That is ture. But remember not too many get fully qualified in SF. Only 3 out of 100 make it through the training and get qualified. It may be a 'badge of honor' but it is still something you don't get like a bag of candy.
All of the awards and decorations are nice, but more often than not I witnessed too many pushing to get them in lieu of doing their job and too many times the rest of us were put in dangerous situations that didn't need to happen due to their efforts. I also saw many get 'zapped' because they were doing stupid things to get the award, instead of what they were trained to do.
It is one thing to be put in for an award for something you did above and beyond while doing your job but another who are getting 'gung ho' just for the purpose of getting awards so they can get promoted quicker.
Yes it is an honor to get recognized, but far too often I have seen the wrong person get the award and the one who truly deserves it get overlooked.
All of the awards and decorations are nice, but more often than not I witnessed too many pushing to get them in lieu of doing their job and too many times the rest of us were put in dangerous situations that didn't need to happen due to their efforts. I also saw many get 'zapped' because they were doing stupid things to get the award, instead of what they were trained to do.
It is one thing to be put in for an award for something you did above and beyond while doing your job but another who are getting 'gung ho' just for the purpose of getting awards so they can get promoted quicker.
Yes it is an honor to get recognized, but far too often I have seen the wrong person get the award and the one who truly deserves it get overlooked.
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MSG William Hesser
MSG William Hesser - Spot on. All we were doing was our job and didn't care about the 'chick candy' you put on your uniform. That is why I didn't pursue the medal issue when nothing was in my 201 file. Myself and my fellow troopers knew what we did and that was good enough.
I spent some time in the NG and when we would have a class A inspection, I would show up with my CIB and Jump wings on and nothing else. My team leader would get after me and say that many of the unit members only dream about what I was qualified to wear.
When I had to get my DA official photo, I went down to the Fitzsimons Army base to get it and there was a young 2nd Lt Nurse standing behind me in line waiting to get her official photo and was very interested in my 'ribbons' and wanted to know where I got them. I asked her which one she liked and would she like to have one. A Sgt. from the Artillery unit standing behind her spoke up and told her that he didn't think she wanted to go through what I did to get them, as he saw my SF tab on my shoulder. While I was getting my photo I could see him telling her what it takes to get them and you could see he 'jaw drop'.
As we would always say, "It don't mean nothin".
I spent some time in the NG and when we would have a class A inspection, I would show up with my CIB and Jump wings on and nothing else. My team leader would get after me and say that many of the unit members only dream about what I was qualified to wear.
When I had to get my DA official photo, I went down to the Fitzsimons Army base to get it and there was a young 2nd Lt Nurse standing behind me in line waiting to get her official photo and was very interested in my 'ribbons' and wanted to know where I got them. I asked her which one she liked and would she like to have one. A Sgt. from the Artillery unit standing behind her spoke up and told her that he didn't think she wanted to go through what I did to get them, as he saw my SF tab on my shoulder. While I was getting my photo I could see him telling her what it takes to get them and you could see he 'jaw drop'.
As we would always say, "It don't mean nothin".
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The best advice I can give you is to drive on. I don't know all the regs when it comes to awards. I probably should because I'm an E-8 but I don't. Nor do I care to. That's what S1 is for. However, I do think its pretty messed up that you worked your tail off and that's how they recognized you. Being in Korea for 3 straight years deserves at a minimum an ARCOM. We don't have problems like that in SF. Maybe its time to reassess your future. Its failures like these, why I left the regular Army. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
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MSG William Hesser
You hit it spot on Dan. That is why I went SF myself. Yes I got several awards, but for us, it was the fact that we were successful in our mission and made things better in the end.
None of us truly cared for all of the 'salad bowl' on the chest. We just wanted to be successful in the mission and not get 'zapped'
Everytime we had to work with the 'conventional forces' we all realized why we went SF to begin with.
My two tours in Nam, I was with the 1st Bde 101st ABN Div and we were working with the 5th SF quite a bit of the time along with our own missions. Even then, I realized that the additional training we received as an Abn Unit was several steps up after we worked with the regular units.
I know it sounds like I am putting them down, but I have seen, after doing joint training with them in various exercises, like JRTC, and FLEETEX and also as evaluators in training they were doing, We were always amazed at how little prep they would do for a mission.
None of us truly cared for all of the 'salad bowl' on the chest. We just wanted to be successful in the mission and not get 'zapped'
Everytime we had to work with the 'conventional forces' we all realized why we went SF to begin with.
My two tours in Nam, I was with the 1st Bde 101st ABN Div and we were working with the 5th SF quite a bit of the time along with our own missions. Even then, I realized that the additional training we received as an Abn Unit was several steps up after we worked with the regular units.
I know it sounds like I am putting them down, but I have seen, after doing joint training with them in various exercises, like JRTC, and FLEETEX and also as evaluators in training they were doing, We were always amazed at how little prep they would do for a mission.
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MSG Dan Castaneda
MSG William Hesser - I couldn't agree more. I spent 9 years in the Infantry, two years in the 101st, and seven years in the 82nd. I left due to the lack of opportunity for training and real world missions. They were more concerned with how a Soldier looked than if he can shoot, move, and communicate. I will admit that, most of that time was during the Clinton administration where the military sat around more than trained due to his lack of support for the military. However, even once the Global War on Terrorism began, the 82nd was more hard up on appearance than getting ready for war. Although we did great on the initial assault and annihilated one of Saddam's elite Brigades. it wasn't due to "training" we had just prior to deployment, it was to all the assets that were allocated for us to use as we pushed in. Also, the massive fire power we brought to the table.
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MSG William Hesser
MSG Dan Castaneda - I know the feeling. After the draw down of Vietnam, between Jimmy Carter and Slick Willie Clinton. Our military ability was shrunk down to level lower than pre WWII. By the time Jimmy Carter was in office, I had moved into the Reserve/Nat Guard. as most of the Spec Ops operations had been given to the 'weekend warriors' due to the cuts in the active side and the fact that most of the missions during that time was 'short duration'.
Needless to say, we had half of our unit on deployment all over the world all the time. With the budget cuts, we were going down to the local hardware store, surplus/camping supply store and office supply store just to keep our unit afloat with gear. Our equipment wes 3rd and 4th generation from what active duty was working with. We were still able to accomplish our missions and even show our brothers in the active side a thing of two on how to improvise and still get the job done. We also were able to set up one of the best training ranges, with the help of the Wyoming Guard, up in their training area. Seal Team 6 would fly in with a several pallets of goodies to train with several times a year, as well as units from several states around the area.
So we made it happen in spite of the total disgust that those two presidents had towards the military. We were totally surprised at Jimmy Carter, since he was a Naval Academy grad. We understood about Slick Willie since he was a deserter, which Jimmy Carter pardoned him for
That is why, when Desert Storm and all of the Iraq and Afghanistan activities started, we wouldn't let the left wing hug a tree snowflakes do to our great brothers and sisters the way they did to we VietNam vets.
Needless to say, we had half of our unit on deployment all over the world all the time. With the budget cuts, we were going down to the local hardware store, surplus/camping supply store and office supply store just to keep our unit afloat with gear. Our equipment wes 3rd and 4th generation from what active duty was working with. We were still able to accomplish our missions and even show our brothers in the active side a thing of two on how to improvise and still get the job done. We also were able to set up one of the best training ranges, with the help of the Wyoming Guard, up in their training area. Seal Team 6 would fly in with a several pallets of goodies to train with several times a year, as well as units from several states around the area.
So we made it happen in spite of the total disgust that those two presidents had towards the military. We were totally surprised at Jimmy Carter, since he was a Naval Academy grad. We understood about Slick Willie since he was a deserter, which Jimmy Carter pardoned him for
That is why, when Desert Storm and all of the Iraq and Afghanistan activities started, we wouldn't let the left wing hug a tree snowflakes do to our great brothers and sisters the way they did to we VietNam vets.
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Suspended Profile
I was put in for a BSM /V in OEF. I was injured a few weeks later and my bsm needed to be rewritten and was never resubmitted or my Purple Heart. I medretired and kicked and screamed and was finally awarded my PH which is an entitlement and a comm which sucks that my BSM was never resubmitted
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You're not wrong for feeling as you do, so I can't fault your ranting, but take a step back for a moment; remember a PCS award isn't even obligatory. Were you robbed? I donno. Maybe. Take the win anyway, even if a fair argument for an award higher than an AAM can be made. Let it go, and don't let it burn you up.
I never got into any trouble, did a couple of minor high-speed things for my last AD unit--nothing super special, but I was the "right place, right time, right uniform" kind of soldier who did as expected, and my ETS award (AAM) paperwork got lost or the dog ate it or whatever happened to it, but in the end, I got nothing. When my squad leader asked about redoing the paperwork he was told it won't happen. That's it. End of story. Irritating sure, but one moves on.
People aren't always recognized for what they earn--it happens to everyone eventually--but sometimes they are. Put the old unit behind you, and carry your skillset forward to your new unit.
I never got into any trouble, did a couple of minor high-speed things for my last AD unit--nothing super special, but I was the "right place, right time, right uniform" kind of soldier who did as expected, and my ETS award (AAM) paperwork got lost or the dog ate it or whatever happened to it, but in the end, I got nothing. When my squad leader asked about redoing the paperwork he was told it won't happen. That's it. End of story. Irritating sure, but one moves on.
People aren't always recognized for what they earn--it happens to everyone eventually--but sometimes they are. Put the old unit behind you, and carry your skillset forward to your new unit.
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SGT Jeremy Nelson
I know how that feels SSG. I spent my entire career at FT. Hood in the same unit, deployed three times and they wanted me to write my own AAM... Obviously I didn't bother, and it was an ETS/PCS. I had worked as a PSG and a PL during deployments, JRTC etc. The award system is very messed up. EDIT: Meant to respond to the original poster but I guess it fits either way.
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SSG (Join to see)
It depends on the units, I remember talking to one of my peers, he said when he left Stewart, one of the requirements to get those clearing papers was to have your PCS Award.
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SFC Jesus Chargualaf
What ever Company Commander did this has a First Sergeant involved... neither position has brought honor to this unit. Sergeant it not only sucks.... you were screwed. To those that say let it be and move on then you do not believe in the traits required of a leader.... honesty, integrity and fair play. Your old unit deserves a close investigation for the very least.... lack of good leadership.
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