Posted on Oct 25, 2014
Was the creation of the CAB really necessary? (A touchy subject)
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Im surprised this hasn't been brought up already here.
I have some strong sentiment about the CIB, as I have been awarded one, and the sub-sequential creation of the CAB, which I have also been awarded. The creation of the CIB during WWII was to illuminate the particular hell in which Infantrymen endure in combat. The CAB was created to address a cry from the rest of the Army to recognize other soldiers who had "engaged" the enemy in some fashion. This insinuates that these soldiers make direct contact with the enemy as a regular part of their MOS, like Infantrymen do. Im sorry, I just don't feel like a TIC that involves breaking contact with the enemy once or twice to be awarded the CAB comes anywhere near close to the singular mission of the Infantry in seeking out, closing with and eliminating the enemy for the entire duration of a tour.
Was the creation of the CAB really necessary? I think not. Much like those who served in WWII who saw action with enemy and got no badge to show for it, I feel that the same absence of award should be due those whose job is not wholly and solely defined by active combat with the enemy.
Let me say that I know soldiers who are not in the Infantry do sometimes find themselves in combat situations. But I do not feel that there was a need for this award to be created, and the "murkiness" of the eligibility criteria for awarding it further degrades its necessity or esteem.
Im sure my comments will upset a few of you out there, I expect it, but my intent is not to insult anyone. This is merely my observation and sentiment and I am looking forward to some honest and heartfelt discourse.
Lets hear it....
I have some strong sentiment about the CIB, as I have been awarded one, and the sub-sequential creation of the CAB, which I have also been awarded. The creation of the CIB during WWII was to illuminate the particular hell in which Infantrymen endure in combat. The CAB was created to address a cry from the rest of the Army to recognize other soldiers who had "engaged" the enemy in some fashion. This insinuates that these soldiers make direct contact with the enemy as a regular part of their MOS, like Infantrymen do. Im sorry, I just don't feel like a TIC that involves breaking contact with the enemy once or twice to be awarded the CAB comes anywhere near close to the singular mission of the Infantry in seeking out, closing with and eliminating the enemy for the entire duration of a tour.
Was the creation of the CAB really necessary? I think not. Much like those who served in WWII who saw action with enemy and got no badge to show for it, I feel that the same absence of award should be due those whose job is not wholly and solely defined by active combat with the enemy.
Let me say that I know soldiers who are not in the Infantry do sometimes find themselves in combat situations. But I do not feel that there was a need for this award to be created, and the "murkiness" of the eligibility criteria for awarding it further degrades its necessity or esteem.
Im sure my comments will upset a few of you out there, I expect it, but my intent is not to insult anyone. This is merely my observation and sentiment and I am looking forward to some honest and heartfelt discourse.
Lets hear it....
Combat
Badges
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 33
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I guess my biggest problem with the CAB is the blatant fraud it produced. It became an accessory that everyone "needed to have" to show they'd been there, done that. As a Personnel Sergeant, I saw ridiculous false statements get turned in in order to get one, as well as one particularly flamboyant attempt by some rear-echelon types to get a CIB.
It is too bad, but commanders have to be the ones to uphold the standard.
It is too bad, but commanders have to be the ones to uphold the standard.
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1SG David Niles
I haled one once but I don't have nor earned one. I think that a lot of MOS's did combat time and they should be recognized of that fact. The inf still have there CIB and the CAB does not take that away
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LTC (Join to see)
1SG...concur...commanders/command teams need to work hard on all awards to make sure we are doing the right thing.
BSMs for only E7 and officers, and ARCOMs for everyone else was a problem I encountered a few years ago in my unit.
BSMs for only E7 and officers, and ARCOMs for everyone else was a problem I encountered a few years ago in my unit.
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LTC (Join to see)
I have been awarded both, but don't think the soldiers should be blamed for this badge hunting mentality. The problem is that when it was approved the standards for earning one were murky at best. This was a solution looking for a problem.
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I too have seen whole units also submitted for CABs based on x-number of mortar rounds landing on the base from day one of the deployment until their departure...... Soldiers that lived and worked with those same Soldiers but in different units never were submitted for it. Very ambiguous as to who gets it and who doesn't. I have no doubt it was created with good intent, but just like with deployment awards, fairness and equity doesn't always apply. On the flip side, I know of 11Bs that worked in the S-shops during a deployment and were also awarded CIB, so it happens all over.
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SGM (Join to see)
I think the ribbon would be a good way to go. I agree there are definitely more questionable CABs floating around. It certainly has become more watered down in my eyes knowing how liberal the policy is grant the award. I The real disservice is that there many more Soldiers that were not duly recognized for their service, that goes for CABS and EOT awards. I saw one BCT that flat out had quotas and rank played a big part as to what you would receive for your EOT award. The same can be said for units stateside when it comes to PCS awards. The system does not always function at it was intended. I know some senior leaders today that have a hard time submitting subordinates for the same level of award they would/will likely receive when they PCS. Its the if that's what I'm getting, then why should they get the same award. The Army does not have a shortage of medal sets, if the Soldier earned and you can justify a certain award, put them in for it........but I guess I am getting off topic.
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CSM (Join to see)
SGM,
I think the ribbon would be a better alternative, and I think much more substantiative awarding criteria is absolutely necessary. I don't disagree with the CAB, I disagree with how unevenly it is handed out to those who do not deserve it. It makes me personally view the CAB with disdain and disrespect, and that is not something I want to do. Shoring up the current criteria and enforcing that it is adhered to is the only way to remedy the situation.
I think the ribbon would be a better alternative, and I think much more substantiative awarding criteria is absolutely necessary. I don't disagree with the CAB, I disagree with how unevenly it is handed out to those who do not deserve it. It makes me personally view the CAB with disdain and disrespect, and that is not something I want to do. Shoring up the current criteria and enforcing that it is adhered to is the only way to remedy the situation.
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Suspended Profile
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Few people know that there was once a combat Artilleryman's badge too with a red background... Now, on the one hand Infantrymen have several distinctive uniform items and deserve all the credit they can get. A few other badges existed and now we have a lot more. Airborne people whined about creation of the Air Assault (wings) badge. My late father in law (CSM Marlette, 3rd ID) was one of the few with a CIB with two stars (WWII, Korea, VN). He thought all other badges were candy. Didn't think too much of a driver's badge either but he was all for anything that motivated a trooper. He was a grunt for 32.5 years and on the first CSM list. That's a hard life. He was entitled to his opinion.
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SGM (Join to see)
I also have an ancestor's Indian Scout hat badge and collar brass...crossed arrows with "US"....bet you never saw that one. Now Special Ops use the arrows...
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CSM (Join to see)
Thanks for the Link on the Artillery Badge. Believe it or not, but have seen the USS hat badge with crossed arrows before. They were authorized for wear sometime in the 1890s and then the the Special Service was authorized the crossed arrows during WWII and then in the 60's the SF. Im a History nerd and I've looked it all up before...ha...what can I say!?
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MSG David Johnson
There was also a Combat Engineers Badge at one time, not sure if it was ever an official thing or not.
When you talk about infantry kicking in doors and taking the fight to the insurgents, well as a route clearance platoon sergeant I can tell you that it wasn't just the infantry taking the fight to them.
My tour in 2004 in Iraq was hauling fuel in unarmored KBR trucks and tankers, we had our own gun truck support so we didn't always have to rely on others that we didn't trust. We had convoys out every day in April of 2004, that was the worst month of the insurgency against convoys, we encountered complex IED attacks, IED's with SAF, VBIED's, and snipers as we drove through the cities in and around Bahgdad and as far north as LSA Anaconda/Balad, Taji, and Hit. There were a few times that we had injured that were MEDEVAC'd out, but fortunately none KIA.
For these attacks we earned our CAB's.
My last tour was clearing IED'S in Ramadi and Fallujah for the Marines, tankers, and armored infantry guys. With a unit of about 90 Soldiers, we had 49 individual Purple Hearts, 4 with a 2nd award, and 2 with a 3rd award. We earned our CAB's.
Yes there are those who went out on a clearance patrol to get their CAB's, we refered to them as 'CAB Rides', we didn't like doing it, but didn't have much choice. And there were those who 'earned' there CAB's by getting shot at with SAF, even though we were in highly armored vehicles.
We had 7 KIA in the battalion, and over 30 injured bad enough to be sent to the states.
So in conclusion, I believe in the concept of the CAB, but I think that the criteria should have been under a microscope. Mid tour they changed the criteria for a Purple Heart for a concussion, why? Were there too many PH's and subsequent CAB's being awarded? I don't know.
My personal feeling is that there should have been a badge for each of the 5 combat arms, that includes Combat Engineers. We were considered combat support sometime in the 2000's, but we didn't change the way we worked from when we were considered the 5th combat arms MOS.
Well, I guess I kind of rattled on so I wll say this, I believe in the reasons behind the badge, just not the way it was awarded.
When you talk about infantry kicking in doors and taking the fight to the insurgents, well as a route clearance platoon sergeant I can tell you that it wasn't just the infantry taking the fight to them.
My tour in 2004 in Iraq was hauling fuel in unarmored KBR trucks and tankers, we had our own gun truck support so we didn't always have to rely on others that we didn't trust. We had convoys out every day in April of 2004, that was the worst month of the insurgency against convoys, we encountered complex IED attacks, IED's with SAF, VBIED's, and snipers as we drove through the cities in and around Bahgdad and as far north as LSA Anaconda/Balad, Taji, and Hit. There were a few times that we had injured that were MEDEVAC'd out, but fortunately none KIA.
For these attacks we earned our CAB's.
My last tour was clearing IED'S in Ramadi and Fallujah for the Marines, tankers, and armored infantry guys. With a unit of about 90 Soldiers, we had 49 individual Purple Hearts, 4 with a 2nd award, and 2 with a 3rd award. We earned our CAB's.
Yes there are those who went out on a clearance patrol to get their CAB's, we refered to them as 'CAB Rides', we didn't like doing it, but didn't have much choice. And there were those who 'earned' there CAB's by getting shot at with SAF, even though we were in highly armored vehicles.
We had 7 KIA in the battalion, and over 30 injured bad enough to be sent to the states.
So in conclusion, I believe in the concept of the CAB, but I think that the criteria should have been under a microscope. Mid tour they changed the criteria for a Purple Heart for a concussion, why? Were there too many PH's and subsequent CAB's being awarded? I don't know.
My personal feeling is that there should have been a badge for each of the 5 combat arms, that includes Combat Engineers. We were considered combat support sometime in the 2000's, but we didn't change the way we worked from when we were considered the 5th combat arms MOS.
Well, I guess I kind of rattled on so I wll say this, I believe in the reasons behind the badge, just not the way it was awarded.
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SGM (Join to see)
MSG Johnson, on target. It takes a village to raise a child and a battalion to raise a soldier. We forget there are many types of soldiers.
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