Posted on Sep 14, 2017
Should a person be held accountable for remarks they made years ago before they took a specific job, by that job?
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I am asking because of a recent incident in my area. A police officer was hired in 2016 and has served the department without issue or complaint. His social postings are very bland and not offensive at all. Yet back in 2015 and 2013 he made two offensive posts of "jewish" jokes. Now there is a cry for his termination. He has not other issues or postings, and only these two were found by someone digging through his social media.
Should a person's employment be able to terminate him based on something that was said years before they were hired? What is any timeline would you consider a person to have "changed" or how many posts or comments would indicate a "problem" or pattern of conduct?
I am truly curious as I am not sure yet what to think of this. I see both the strict side of he said it, he should be fired side, and I also see it was years ago and should you hold him responsible for them now years later? What does my military community think?
http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170914/gpd-receives-complaint-against-hot-cop
Should a person's employment be able to terminate him based on something that was said years before they were hired? What is any timeline would you consider a person to have "changed" or how many posts or comments would indicate a "problem" or pattern of conduct?
I am truly curious as I am not sure yet what to think of this. I see both the strict side of he said it, he should be fired side, and I also see it was years ago and should you hold him responsible for them now years later? What does my military community think?
http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170914/gpd-receives-complaint-against-hot-cop
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 16
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I am in complete disagreement. It's one thing if you say something while on the job or while you are representing a specific company. But what you say in your personal life or even worse in the past should have no bearing on your employment record. Now take that with a grain of salt of course. If I go home and post on Facebook... "Fuck my boss. I hate my job. Fuck those guys". I can assume that my job will no longer be available to me the next day.
Freedom of speech is something we should all hold dear. It may be the most reprehensible speech in the world, but if we don't fight to protect it, then what happens when someone considers your speech offensive.
If this officer has been a stellar example of a cop and has had no issues, then it is ridiculous to punish someone based on something they might have said in passing. As service members, we have heard and said some of the most vile things in the world. But at the end of the day, we remain the utmost professionals because that's who we are as people.
Freedom of speech is something we should all hold dear. It may be the most reprehensible speech in the world, but if we don't fight to protect it, then what happens when someone considers your speech offensive.
If this officer has been a stellar example of a cop and has had no issues, then it is ridiculous to punish someone based on something they might have said in passing. As service members, we have heard and said some of the most vile things in the world. But at the end of the day, we remain the utmost professionals because that's who we are as people.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGT Chris Wagoner - Spot on, as a single thing I do not see it as a termination offense .
More so if he was open and willing to honestly say it was in poor taste and inappropriate thing.
If not willing to do that, if there was a pattern seen, then perhaps..
More so if he was open and willing to honestly say it was in poor taste and inappropriate thing.
If not willing to do that, if there was a pattern seen, then perhaps..
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
SGM Erik Marquez - No I did not read his post and nor do I care to. I also did not say he is absolved of the consequences of his speech.
Like I said in my response, if I started talking badly about my job or boss, I would expect to find my employment terminated the next day.
And yes, this was something that was said in passing... it was so passing that 4 whole years had gone by before someone complained. We aren't referring to something he recently said. Per the example, the individual has had no history of bad conduct or unprofessional behavior.
So yes, I asked myself. Am I ok with an adult making that joke. Yes. It's a joke. There are many kinds of jokes and just because one doesn't suit your fancy doesn't mean we should punish individuals because it suits theirs. Maybe you like puns. Maybe you like limericks. Maybe it's knock knock jokes. Or maybe it's low brow jokes. Dirty jokes. Racist jokes. Sexist jokes. The point of a joke is to make people laugh or to provoke a reaction. While you may have an issue with the joke in question, his audience might have zero issue with it.
My point was that it's a little ridiculous to punish someone for things they said in the past. If he was currently posting stuff like this, that's one thing. But to drag up a post from 4 years ago that someone had to take the time to actually search for is ridiculous.
Can you say for certain that all the words out of your mouth has never hurt anyone's feelings in the past 10 years. Maybe you complained about the service when you went out to eat. Maybe you said something out of frustration when someone backed into your mailbox and drove off. Would you really want your career destroyed because someone held a grudge over something you might have said...
We all say things that may have been considered "in poor taste" at some point in time. But unless we are saying those things currently, then those things shouldn't be used against us. I can't remember the things I said yesterday, never mind 4 years ago or 10 years ago.
Like I said in my response, if I started talking badly about my job or boss, I would expect to find my employment terminated the next day.
And yes, this was something that was said in passing... it was so passing that 4 whole years had gone by before someone complained. We aren't referring to something he recently said. Per the example, the individual has had no history of bad conduct or unprofessional behavior.
So yes, I asked myself. Am I ok with an adult making that joke. Yes. It's a joke. There are many kinds of jokes and just because one doesn't suit your fancy doesn't mean we should punish individuals because it suits theirs. Maybe you like puns. Maybe you like limericks. Maybe it's knock knock jokes. Or maybe it's low brow jokes. Dirty jokes. Racist jokes. Sexist jokes. The point of a joke is to make people laugh or to provoke a reaction. While you may have an issue with the joke in question, his audience might have zero issue with it.
My point was that it's a little ridiculous to punish someone for things they said in the past. If he was currently posting stuff like this, that's one thing. But to drag up a post from 4 years ago that someone had to take the time to actually search for is ridiculous.
Can you say for certain that all the words out of your mouth has never hurt anyone's feelings in the past 10 years. Maybe you complained about the service when you went out to eat. Maybe you said something out of frustration when someone backed into your mailbox and drove off. Would you really want your career destroyed because someone held a grudge over something you might have said...
We all say things that may have been considered "in poor taste" at some point in time. But unless we are saying those things currently, then those things shouldn't be used against us. I can't remember the things I said yesterday, never mind 4 years ago or 10 years ago.
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SGM Erik Marquez
Cpl Justin Goolsby - No I did not read his post and nor do I care to.
And thus you really have no place to to stand from and enter this discussion.
Im betting you did not read my posts on the subject either as your comments make no sense if you did.
I never said he should be punished, whatever that is in your mind.
I said he should take responsibility for his words.
Perhaps something like "yes I said that, yup it was meant and a joke, and not funny in hind site and wholly inappropriate to joke about the murder of millions of Jews"
Cpl Justin Goolsby So yes, I asked myself. Am I ok with an adult making that joke. Yes. It's a joke. "
He posted..."“What’s the difference between boy scouts and jews?” Anybody know? Well it is because “Boy scouts come back from their camps.”"
Aand that you find it a joke IOW funny is more telling then you likely intended it to be.
Cpl Justin Goolsby Can you say for certain that all the words out of your mouth has never hurt anyone's feelings in the past 10 years."
Of course not, never said otherwise..... I said RESPONSIBLE , that word seems to be giving you difficulty.
I have absolutely no doubt at all I have said things previously I would choose not to say today.. If you wish to waste your time and research, finding were I called someone a nasty name, or whatever assuming its not fake, and I really said it, I would take responsibility for saying it... State my current thoughts on what I said and leave it to the readers to decide if thats closes it out of some other repercussion is appropriate
Good day
And thus you really have no place to to stand from and enter this discussion.
Im betting you did not read my posts on the subject either as your comments make no sense if you did.
I never said he should be punished, whatever that is in your mind.
I said he should take responsibility for his words.
Perhaps something like "yes I said that, yup it was meant and a joke, and not funny in hind site and wholly inappropriate to joke about the murder of millions of Jews"
Cpl Justin Goolsby So yes, I asked myself. Am I ok with an adult making that joke. Yes. It's a joke. "
He posted..."“What’s the difference between boy scouts and jews?” Anybody know? Well it is because “Boy scouts come back from their camps.”"
Aand that you find it a joke IOW funny is more telling then you likely intended it to be.
Cpl Justin Goolsby Can you say for certain that all the words out of your mouth has never hurt anyone's feelings in the past 10 years."
Of course not, never said otherwise..... I said RESPONSIBLE , that word seems to be giving you difficulty.
I have absolutely no doubt at all I have said things previously I would choose not to say today.. If you wish to waste your time and research, finding were I called someone a nasty name, or whatever assuming its not fake, and I really said it, I would take responsibility for saying it... State my current thoughts on what I said and leave it to the readers to decide if thats closes it out of some other repercussion is appropriate
Good day
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
Um no... a question was asked. Information was provided. I am allowed and able to formulate my own opinion based on the information provided. I don't need to search the individual's internet history to be able to answer a question as simple as this.
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SGT Chris Wagoner Great Question. I Know I've Said and Did some Horrendous Things as a Much Younger Man and Thank God there was No Social Media Around to Record them. I Do Believe People Grow Up and Hopefully Change for the Better.
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LTC David Brown
I agree a couple of years and it is over. Young people need to realize things posted on social media can come back and bite you. I don't think things several years out should count. Employers are always in a CYA mode and don't want to deal with negative controversy. They don't want time taken up with employees passing around photos of the hottie whose rear end was plastered on face book. They don't want to explain to the NAACP why they hired the drunk guy who told a racist joke . The CFO that blasted the Chic Fila server and posted it on You Tube still can't find a job. So as much as I wish it didn't matter, it does.
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The internet: where supposed anonymity lends itself to saying outrageous things in a quest to get likes (or upvotes).
Yet where it is recorded for posterity to remind you that before your puppy, baby, and what I'm eating for dinner pics, you were a hell-raising drunkard who chased skirts and said stupid stuff online.
You post your life for all to see, yet are stunned when down the road your own actions come back to haunt you.
Stupidity only breeds my contempt.
In this case, it is not like what he said was THAT long before taking the police officer gig. You would think he would have the self-awareness to do a little sanitizing of his online persona before getting into a public position.
However, I do not believe that "words" alone constitute grounds for firing or a permanent scarlet letter. The character of a person and what they do after making a mistake or saying something stupid counts far more in my book.
Who among us has never said something stupid or regrettable? The online pitchforks and torches crowd needs to get a life.
Yet where it is recorded for posterity to remind you that before your puppy, baby, and what I'm eating for dinner pics, you were a hell-raising drunkard who chased skirts and said stupid stuff online.
You post your life for all to see, yet are stunned when down the road your own actions come back to haunt you.
Stupidity only breeds my contempt.
In this case, it is not like what he said was THAT long before taking the police officer gig. You would think he would have the self-awareness to do a little sanitizing of his online persona before getting into a public position.
However, I do not believe that "words" alone constitute grounds for firing or a permanent scarlet letter. The character of a person and what they do after making a mistake or saying something stupid counts far more in my book.
Who among us has never said something stupid or regrettable? The online pitchforks and torches crowd needs to get a life.
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