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What is your take on this desensitization process? Do you think there should be more then resume filling out in seps/taps? Like should there be "sensitivity" training to get ourselves re acclimated to the civ div?
Posted 10 y ago
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Having never deployed take what I say with that in mind. I look at it this way. Once you have gone somewhere, it is much easier to find your way back. However how do you tell yourself that aggression is now off limits. That will take time. How much I can't say. It could be many months if not years to change that as being a possible response to not being an option. My best advise is if your feeling out of wack is to reach out here like you have or talk to someone you know and trust. I know that doesn't do you a lot of good when you want to crack a guy for being an jack ass. Certainly there needs to be a decompression process but as individuals process things differently I don't think there is a way to create a cookie cutter program that would work for everyone.
On a side note I hope you got your Egg Bowl tickets, it's going to one hell of game.
On a side note I hope you got your Egg Bowl tickets, it's going to one hell of game.
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Cpl Thomas Cahill
Very true maybe I will just try and shake the thought of being normal and just be. Thank you brother!
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GySgt George Vukovich
I don't think there is a "normal" in life. I've been retired for 12 years. One of the things I've noticed most in CIV DIV is "some of my counter parts who have not served seem to have their own issues which put them on edge at times"...their expeiences are different from what our brothers and sisters in uniform have experienced but at the same time they are still real experiences. What I've noticed from this group is an ability to talk through problems, seek input from others, and find their own internal peace. Relying on the VA to help cope with problems might be the answer for some, but not for all. I do think "we", in many cases, can help one another through difficult periods. When I say "we" I'm talking about all Vets. We understand each other better than anyone else does. Let's apply the same principle I mentioned above and truly begin to incorporate into our lives. We are an understanding and knowledgeable group!
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SPC David S.
Roger that Gunny. I think part of the issue on the military side is the stigma of how problems, especially mental health issues, are perceived by the CoC. Also rank can inhibit the communication process in who you can confide in. Then to top it all off there is the peer pressure to not let your team down. Nobody wants to be the weak link. Yes I agree that there needs to be a way to talk these things out but I feel the only way to do that in a constructive many is in an environment void of rank and command. I'm not sure that can be done in the military as it is counter-intuitive.
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The issue for soldiers since the beginnig of time has always been:
a) how do you train soldiers to behave aggressively in combat while still maintaining control?
b) how do you turn off this enhanced tendency for aggression after the soldier leaves the military and is reintegrated into "peaceful world"?
As LTC Grossman has talked about in his books, the major way to maintain control is the absolute authority that the military CoC provides. You follow orders. Period. You kill, but only when ordered to do so. Period. But that absolute "leash" doesn't exist anymore when you become a civilian again. And de-programming is much harder to do than programming....
a) how do you train soldiers to behave aggressively in combat while still maintaining control?
b) how do you turn off this enhanced tendency for aggression after the soldier leaves the military and is reintegrated into "peaceful world"?
As LTC Grossman has talked about in his books, the major way to maintain control is the absolute authority that the military CoC provides. You follow orders. Period. You kill, but only when ordered to do so. Period. But that absolute "leash" doesn't exist anymore when you become a civilian again. And de-programming is much harder to do than programming....
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Cpl Thomas Cahill
That is the truth! It's so effective but once we are discharged it's like being a 5 y/o lost in NYC. We can't stay in forever and we can't kill everyday so we just get castes off by society as brainwashed tools. When we took care of the military and did our jobs we don't have that favor returned. I think if they provide that therapy prior to getting out it would save us and the VA the civ div over load. Also, I have those books enroute to my house as we speak! I can't wait to read up on it all.
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SSG (Join to see)
The aggression never leaves, the desire for a natural high never leaves. You have to learn how to use it in a healthy manor
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Cpl Thomas Cahill I think the military has gone a long way from where it once was in its reintegration and counseling services. Both the ones that are mandatory and the once that are offered voluntarily afterword.
If this post is in any way personal, I would recommend seeking some training to help with reintegration and processing what you experienced in the military. I myself have benefited from extra work in this area as have many Marines I know. I am not personally familiar in depth with the VA's systems, more with that of the active military, but I know the VA does offer services (again, some of my Marines have mentioned it.) There are also opportunities through local veterans groups like IAVA, American Legion, VFW or veterans clubs at local colleges. There is also self-study through books about "kill-ology" such as Dr Grossman's On Killing and On Combat (link below) . There are also Church oriented groups of various faiths to help with the re-integration process. If I can be of any assistance please don't hesitate to send a message.
If this post is in any way personal, I would recommend seeking some training to help with reintegration and processing what you experienced in the military. I myself have benefited from extra work in this area as have many Marines I know. I am not personally familiar in depth with the VA's systems, more with that of the active military, but I know the VA does offer services (again, some of my Marines have mentioned it.) There are also opportunities through local veterans groups like IAVA, American Legion, VFW or veterans clubs at local colleges. There is also self-study through books about "kill-ology" such as Dr Grossman's On Killing and On Combat (link below) . There are also Church oriented groups of various faiths to help with the re-integration process. If I can be of any assistance please don't hesitate to send a message.
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society: Dave Grossman:...
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society [Dave Grossman] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion. And contemporary civilian society
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Capt Richard I P.
Cpl Thomas Cahill I am sorry to hear about these challenges in getting what you need that you and your brothers have faced after your service. You have discovered what many before you have: that those who have seen the elephant with you are the best confidants and can best understand what you're going through. I know the VA does try to facilitate these conversations. I also know that the help of a professional can be useful, even if he or she hasn't seen combat or crisis, for relaxation techniques or other treatment as necessary. The other resources I mentioned, particularly various veterans groups are also worth looking into. Helping others can be as useful to you as to them.
Sometimes timelines match up wrong and a combat veteran doesn't get the time he (or she) needs to decompress with those he served with before moving on-or worse transitioning completely out of the military. Should the military fix this? Of course. Will it ever be completely successful? Probably not. Unfortunately, this puts the burden on the veteran. The good news is there are others out there to partner with and make each other better.
Sometimes timelines match up wrong and a combat veteran doesn't get the time he (or she) needs to decompress with those he served with before moving on-or worse transitioning completely out of the military. Should the military fix this? Of course. Will it ever be completely successful? Probably not. Unfortunately, this puts the burden on the veteran. The good news is there are others out there to partner with and make each other better.
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Cpl Thomas Cahill
Yes thank you for the extra words of wisdom and lending your ear. I will look in to those other groups you have mentioned. I will also password on them. Good points you have brought up thank you again brother.
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Capt Richard I P.
It is my pleasure, it takes courage to bring things like these up, particularly in a public forum like this. I will recommend one last book: the Warrior Ethos by Steven Pressfield (link below). It talks about our psyche and ethos from a more spiritual perspective than Grossman does. Again, if there's anything else I can do, feel free to send me a message. http://www.stevenpressfield.com/the-warrior-ethos/
The Warrior Ethos | Steven Pressfield
Website of author and historian, Steven Pressfield.
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Cpl Thomas Cahill
That was the first time this book was brought up I believe. I will look in to this one as well sounds interesting! Thank you.
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