Posted on Jul 13, 2017
Can a unit deny ETS terminal leave over 30 days because they are deploying and my leave falls when they are deployed?
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Leave
ETS/EAS
Deployment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 13
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The straight up answer to your question is "Yes, your 'terminal leave' can be denied."
To set everybody straight here, there is no such thing as "terminal leave". It's not written into any rules or regulations, it's not a "right", or anything of the like.
Terminal leave is just a phrase that most people use to describe a leave period they wish to take at, or near, the end of their term of service, typically used for job hunting, job interviews, moving preparations, etc. It's just "regular leave" that people have given the name "terminal leave".
Leave is subject to approval and disapproval based on the needs of the service, and command, to which a servicemember is attached. This does not change just because it's for "terminal leave".
NOTE: Don't confuse this discussion with, for example, "medical leave". Medical leave has its own requirements.
I don't know what the other service equivalents are, but NAVREGS Article 1157 explicitly says "Leave and liberty will be granted to the maximum extent practicable."
It does not say it WILL be granted...it says it will be granted TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PRACTICABLE. That makes it conditional upon the needs of your command.
To set everybody straight here, there is no such thing as "terminal leave". It's not written into any rules or regulations, it's not a "right", or anything of the like.
Terminal leave is just a phrase that most people use to describe a leave period they wish to take at, or near, the end of their term of service, typically used for job hunting, job interviews, moving preparations, etc. It's just "regular leave" that people have given the name "terminal leave".
Leave is subject to approval and disapproval based on the needs of the service, and command, to which a servicemember is attached. This does not change just because it's for "terminal leave".
NOTE: Don't confuse this discussion with, for example, "medical leave". Medical leave has its own requirements.
I don't know what the other service equivalents are, but NAVREGS Article 1157 explicitly says "Leave and liberty will be granted to the maximum extent practicable."
It does not say it WILL be granted...it says it will be granted TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PRACTICABLE. That makes it conditional upon the needs of your command.
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CPO Glenn Moss
CPL Any Jim - I get that. And trust me...in my own 20 years in the Navy, things didn't always go the way I wanted with respect to leave, either. That included "terminal leave". (Of which I got a whopping 3 days, at the end of December 2005. But it made for a nice separation bonus, since I sold back 57 days.)
Now, don't confuse what I said with leave itself not being a right. NavRegs Chapter 11 "General Regulations" (Section 5, "Rights and Restrictions") Article 1157 says "Leave and liberty will be granted to the maximum extent practicable". This very clearly establishes both leave AND liberty as "rights". However, that in itself does not mean a servicemember will be granted leave and liberty every time.
You say "Treat the SM like an adult". I agree. And yes, I've seen cases where this wasn't true. But I've likewise seen cases where the servicemember in question refused to accept any other view OTHER than "I'm not being treated fairly/as an adult" when it was patently obvious this was not the case.
I cannot speak for the example(s) you've given, as I don't actually know the circumstances. And my answer was geared towards the OPs question of "Can a unit deny ETS terminal leave over 30 days because they are deploying and my leave falls when they are deployed?".
Now, don't confuse what I said with leave itself not being a right. NavRegs Chapter 11 "General Regulations" (Section 5, "Rights and Restrictions") Article 1157 says "Leave and liberty will be granted to the maximum extent practicable". This very clearly establishes both leave AND liberty as "rights". However, that in itself does not mean a servicemember will be granted leave and liberty every time.
You say "Treat the SM like an adult". I agree. And yes, I've seen cases where this wasn't true. But I've likewise seen cases where the servicemember in question refused to accept any other view OTHER than "I'm not being treated fairly/as an adult" when it was patently obvious this was not the case.
I cannot speak for the example(s) you've given, as I don't actually know the circumstances. And my answer was geared towards the OPs question of "Can a unit deny ETS terminal leave over 30 days because they are deploying and my leave falls when they are deployed?".
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CPO Glenn Moss
Oh, and I think somewhere along the line, there was a question of how long a command can "sit" on a leave chit. This should be outlined in the command policies somewhere. A leave chit CANNOT be sat upon indefinitely, as regulations clearly define both leave and liberty as rights. The approving authority (typically the XO for submarines, the CO if the leave chit is disapproved all the way through the XO) MUST either approve or disapprove the leave chit by a certain number of days.
If this is not happening, then REQUEST IT. If it ends up disapproved, then save the disapproved copy in your records. Then do the same for all other leave chits submitted.
This becomes important especially if one is in a "use or lose" scenario. Unless special circumstances allow for an exception, servicemembers may only carry over a maximum of 60 days of leave each fiscal year. If the servicemember does not qualify for an exception, any unused days over 60 will be lost. One of those possible exceptions has to do with the command not approving leave throughout the fiscal year, for whatever reason(s). If documentation is not kept by the servicemember of repeated disapproved leave requests, then the servicemember runs a real risk of losing those days.
If this is not happening, then REQUEST IT. If it ends up disapproved, then save the disapproved copy in your records. Then do the same for all other leave chits submitted.
This becomes important especially if one is in a "use or lose" scenario. Unless special circumstances allow for an exception, servicemembers may only carry over a maximum of 60 days of leave each fiscal year. If the servicemember does not qualify for an exception, any unused days over 60 will be lost. One of those possible exceptions has to do with the command not approving leave throughout the fiscal year, for whatever reason(s). If documentation is not kept by the servicemember of repeated disapproved leave requests, then the servicemember runs a real risk of losing those days.
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PO3 (Join to see)
Terminal Leave is not a thing but Separation Leave is. MILPERSMAN 1050-120. However it still can get denied but saying its non-existent or made up is a little bit of a stretch considering they have a MILPERSMAN section specifically for Separation Leave.
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Ridiculous, my terminal leave was during my brigades deployment and it got approved by my battalion commander. Don't let them screw you over something you earned.
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SPC Anthony Schepis
They didn’t deploy yet when it got signed off. An S shop lieutenant actually forged the BC signature.
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2LT Nicholas Certeza
I asked him, he said that the brigade commander isn't signing terminal leave unless its retirement more than 30 days and wont have clearer guidance until after our train up at the National Training Center.
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SPC Brady Allen
SN Greg Wright that is the best way to get an answer...straight from the horses mouth. SPC Nicholas Certeza, I feel for you on this, but in a sense, the mission does come first in most cases, even if you aren't a critical MOS. Train up and preparation are crucial when going to NTC. I hope your CoC can possibly work with you on this.
Try to come up with Plan B and C and run it by your leadership. If you try to at least work with your unit to come up with a solution, they might be more willing to work with you. I urge you to not become salty like most soldiers I know, who want to disagree with every aspect of what gets told to them. As we always say, Soldier first. Good luck brother.
Try to come up with Plan B and C and run it by your leadership. If you try to at least work with your unit to come up with a solution, they might be more willing to work with you. I urge you to not become salty like most soldiers I know, who want to disagree with every aspect of what gets told to them. As we always say, Soldier first. Good luck brother.
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