Posted on Apr 9, 2017
MAJ Telecommunications Systems Engineer
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Some officers are meant to command and lead, and others probably should never be allowed the opportunity. I'm a witness to the case of an ousted ex-commander now working as a staff-O "leading" a highly technical department - his lack of technical competence and inability to mentor and lead others is obvious. Should such an officer be "encouraged" to separate or retire early to make room?
Posted in these groups: 200210106b CommandGeneral of the army rank insignia OfficerDod color DoD
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MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P
276
276
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I think the biggest (well, one of the biggest anyway) mistakes Big DoD makes is assuming EVERYONE is born to be a leader and should strive to be the next Chief of Staff or Sergeant Major of the Army depending on whether you are Officer or Enlisted. Sadly, not everyone has the ability for that role. It doesn't mean they can't be useful in some other capacity. Not ever NCO can be a Platoon Sgt just as every LTC can't be a unit commander. Maybe the "UP or Out" mentality that drive everyone to leadership roles isn't such a great plan as originally envisioned.
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COL William Oseles
COL William Oseles
>1 y
SPC Mike Davis - Different War, Different methods and he could not adapt. Patton would have sucked in Viet Nam, but put him in Desert Storm he would have ruled.
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1LT Kurt Mccarthy
1LT Kurt Mccarthy
>1 y
Read all the comments, all great information. It comes down to it at the end, to what I said. Issues at the way top and also politicians sticking they're opinions where we dont need them. We can give 101 ways to better improve the military and even save tax dollars. Like alluded above, we save by retaining talent in areas that we need it. Maybe that would also help when the next president takes office and wants to dismantle the military to cut budget instead of kicking out 40k+ service members in a matter of months. We already saved a bunch by getting rid of up or out and retaining talent. Maybe this is why they feel the need to push people up idk. This article came out in 2011 but always seemed very relevant to what I saw. https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/308346/
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SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM
SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM
5 y
What's to say that the person doing the relieving isn't a moron themselves. I personally know that to be the case in at least one instance.
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Cpl Phil Hsueh
Cpl Phil Hsueh
5 y
COL William Oseles - The entire 7th wasn't wiped out at The Little Bighorn, that's a common misconception. Custer lost about 1/3 to 1//2 of the 7th, including himself, his brothers, and brother in law, but that's far from the entirety of the 7th. But while he did get a good chunk of the 7th wiped out at The Little Bighorn, he had performed spectacularly up until then, esp. during the Civil War where his bravery and his leadership saw him get brevet promotions all the way up to Major General.

Custer was one of those officers who created a toxic atmosphere within his command, particularly amongst his officers. He was known to play favorites and some of his subordinate officers seriously disliked, if not outright hated, him. This may have been a factor in the two officers in charge of the surviving 2 elements of the 7th (after Custer had split it in 3) debating the meaning of a set of written orders and whether they should try and ride to the rescue of his "battalion" or not.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
123
123
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Not everyone is a leader. The Army's big mistake, both NCOs and Officers. There are plenty of places many of they can serve and do very well, just not in command or leadership.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
Sgt Chris Fisher - I've only met one and He was relieved of command and made to retire. He seemed to be the exception, in all other cases in My experience the Mustangs did tend to be great leaders. One unit I was all our Officers were mustang ranging from SSgt up to MSgt so not just mustangs but experienced NCOs prior to becoming commissioned Officers. Two of those in that unit a former SSgt and a former MSgt rose to the rank of Full Colonel, 06. I lost track of the others past Captain but it appears they were doing ok, I'm sure they must have advanced further.
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LTC Jr Hutto
LTC Jr Hutto
>1 y
SGT Thomas Price - I've heard every officer a mustang idea many times through the years and I can tell you one of the absolute worst officers I ever knew was a 1stLt mustanger who was in charge of my platoon during my enlisted days in the Marine Corps. This man was a sadist and took particular delight in denigrating and mistreating his Marines as I witnessed first hand. When I was commissioned in the US Army, I vowed I would never, ever be an officer like that Marine LT. Beyond that, I know a ton of USMA officers who were pretty darned good platoon leaders who went on to become duds when they made captain because they realized the WPPA would protect them if they screwed up. Not many, but a few. I knew a lot of ROTC platoon leaders who struggled with the very basics of soldiering 24/7 but once they'd been in for a while, they made some truly outstanding captains, majors and LTCs. None of them had enlisted time.
At the end of the day sir, what makes a good officer isn't their source of commissioning, it's what's in their heart and soul that counts most and that goes for all leaders at all levels. In my opinion, those leaders I respected most were the ones who were tough, demanding, fair and who genuinely loved those subordinates entrusted to them as if they were their own sons. There's a few of those gents I'm still close friends with today some 35 plus years down the road. Now that's real leadership that lasts.
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SGT Thomas Price
SGT Thomas Price
>1 y
Well sir, I will defer to your experience on the matter; I realize that my sample pool is much smaller than yours. Salute.
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WO1 Maintenance Platoon Leader
WO1 (Join to see)
6 y
I feel like this is pretty accurate I also see a lot of places where you have someone that is competent at one level and for all of the reasons you described makes the next pay grade and is absolutely awful at it. There are some people in the army that deserve to be a four-year staff sergeant there's other people that if left to their own devices could be a competent E5 at their retirement. Personally I'd rather see somebody stay at a level they were good at then take on something they were uncomfortable with
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Capt Seid Waddell
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83
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I served under a fine officer that had earlier been relieved of duty as Base Commander because of an error in judgment by his predecessor - while he was still in transit to his new duty station.

Two air crews were lost due to being scrambled into the teeth of a severe storm on the standing orders of the commander that had just been relieved of his command for the same reason. The previous commander valued his response time record over the lives of his pilots and he would not allow exceptions for severe weather - even in training situations.

Someone had to pay for such a mishap - so my commander was relieved of a command that he hadn't yet assumed. Unthinking stupidity can affect any rank - even those that make such rulings.

This officer was one of the finest commanders I ever served under, and he continued to serve with distinction until his retirement.
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SGT Thomas Price
SGT Thomas Price
>1 y
Every time I wax nostalgic about my time in the military, I visit Rally Point and take my two reality pills. Exiting was the best decision I ever made.
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CPT Special Forces Officer
CPT (Join to see)
>1 y
Very true on so many levels.
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Cpl Phil Hsueh
Cpl Phil Hsueh
5 y
It seems to me that higher command is almost always looking for scapegoats whenever something happens and seldomly, if ever, blames themselves whenever something bad happens. There was a recent incident where a sub commander was relieved of command because of a bad night time docking. This was despite the CO telling his Commodore that his crew was not trained for it and the Commodore insisting on him doing it anyway because he wanted the skipper and his boat in the dock ASAP. So, the skipper was relieved of command for "loss of confidence" (along with his senior staff, including the COB) but, in this case, the investigating board also found fault with the Commodore for being so insistent on the docking and ignoring the warnings of his subordinate.

There's also the various incidences of collisions in Navy ships in recent years as a result of crews being overworked and undertrained. None of this the fault of the ship's skippers but as a result of policy pushing these ships and their captains harder and harder yet it's captains of these ships that are getting beached, not their fleet commanders who are telling them to keep on going despite their crews not have adequate time to rest, much less train.
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MSG John Priest
MSG John Priest
5 y
While performing duties as first sergeant in Germany and just passing the IG inspection with flying colors the battalion commander relieved me of my duties and tried to end my service with over 17 years. Soon after the first sergeant that serviced the LTC’s vehicle among others in command failed the IG without being relieved. I was fortunate enough to find a position and retire.
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