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"A flag may be initiated when, through the Soldier's fault as determined by the command, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350-1). If your name is on the attached roster that is provided each month via email you are required to conduct the APFT, unless you have one of the below authorized absence and make prior coordinated with the Army Element CDR or NCOIC. Failure to comply may result in a FLAG being initiated IAW AR 600-8-2. Appointments and meetings need to be rescheduled so it will allow yo to take the APFT on your scheduled date.
(Authorized absences)
- Approved Leave (signed by the Commander)
- TDY
- Quarters
- Temporary Profile
Those grammatical errors are in the policy (quoting as is). My issue with this is how it is stated, according to AR 350-1 "Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record. AA and AGR Soldiers will take the APFT twice each calendar year. A minimum of 4 months will separate records tests. Soldiers that require make-up testing or re-testing for an APFT failure are exempt from the 4-month rule. The intent is for the Active Army and the AGR Soldiers to take a record APFT every 6 months...."
The way the policy is written makes it seem anything that isn't on their list of approved absences will result in a flag if you're on the list for that month. My issue with this is that they changed the APFT date to a date that I have a medical appointment that can't be rescheduled (all day test). Yet, the policy states I NEED to reschedule all appointments and meetings so I can take the APFT on my scheduled date. Do you think this authorized absence list is too stringent? Should my command be authorized to initiate a flag due to conflicts with important medical appointments? They haven't said I'll be flagged, but I still think the policy isn't written as reasonably as it should be. Thoughts?
(Authorized absences)
- Approved Leave (signed by the Commander)
- TDY
- Quarters
- Temporary Profile
Those grammatical errors are in the policy (quoting as is). My issue with this is how it is stated, according to AR 350-1 "Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record. AA and AGR Soldiers will take the APFT twice each calendar year. A minimum of 4 months will separate records tests. Soldiers that require make-up testing or re-testing for an APFT failure are exempt from the 4-month rule. The intent is for the Active Army and the AGR Soldiers to take a record APFT every 6 months...."
The way the policy is written makes it seem anything that isn't on their list of approved absences will result in a flag if you're on the list for that month. My issue with this is that they changed the APFT date to a date that I have a medical appointment that can't be rescheduled (all day test). Yet, the policy states I NEED to reschedule all appointments and meetings so I can take the APFT on my scheduled date. Do you think this authorized absence list is too stringent? Should my command be authorized to initiate a flag due to conflicts with important medical appointments? They haven't said I'll be flagged, but I still think the policy isn't written as reasonably as it should be. Thoughts?
Posted in these groups: 
APFT
APFT
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 5
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Have you talked to your leadership about an excused absence for your medical appointment? That policy letter makes me think the unit has had a problem with people not showing up (without a valid reason) for the APFT.
I bet if you approach your leadership with your reasonable reason, you'll get what you're after. Let us know, will ya?
I bet if you approach your leadership with your reasonable reason, you'll get what you're after. Let us know, will ya?
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Sir,
I have notified them, just haven't heard anything back as of yet. The way the policy is written, however, makes it seem like they can justify initiating a flag for anything not on their list or they don't approve of no matter how reasonable the request may be. The email associated with the policy states: "If your name is on the attached roster you have been identified to take a record APFT this month. All personnel that will not be able to conduct the APFT due to having one on the following authorized absences: Approved Leave (signed by the Commander), TDY, Temporary Profile MUST inform the Army Element (AE) CDR or J1 NCOIC to be exempt. Failure to coordinate will result in a FLAG being initiated."
My concern is that my unit has not been very supportive of my medical appointments in the past. I believe they are under the impression that nothing is wrong with me and I schedule these appointments to get out of work or for some other nonsensical reason. I have no issue taking an APFT, but my medical health is my priority. If they flag me for going to my appointment, then I'll notify my doctor and IG to address.
While I understand a command writing policies similar to this to get individuals to show up for the APFT, but the wording in this policy seems too stringent and to give these leaders too much unrestricted power for initiating a flag. I've had poor experiences with my command, and fear them abusing their authority not only to hurt me, but my fellow soldiers. I may just be overly concerned based on past events.
I have notified them, just haven't heard anything back as of yet. The way the policy is written, however, makes it seem like they can justify initiating a flag for anything not on their list or they don't approve of no matter how reasonable the request may be. The email associated with the policy states: "If your name is on the attached roster you have been identified to take a record APFT this month. All personnel that will not be able to conduct the APFT due to having one on the following authorized absences: Approved Leave (signed by the Commander), TDY, Temporary Profile MUST inform the Army Element (AE) CDR or J1 NCOIC to be exempt. Failure to coordinate will result in a FLAG being initiated."
My concern is that my unit has not been very supportive of my medical appointments in the past. I believe they are under the impression that nothing is wrong with me and I schedule these appointments to get out of work or for some other nonsensical reason. I have no issue taking an APFT, but my medical health is my priority. If they flag me for going to my appointment, then I'll notify my doctor and IG to address.
While I understand a command writing policies similar to this to get individuals to show up for the APFT, but the wording in this policy seems too stringent and to give these leaders too much unrestricted power for initiating a flag. I've had poor experiences with my command, and fear them abusing their authority not only to hurt me, but my fellow soldiers. I may just be overly concerned based on past events.
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CW5 (Join to see)
SGT Kristin Wiley, I understand. I would still recommend approaching your leadership and requesting an excused absence for your appointment.
The IG option is always available, but I would think you could take the APFT on another scheduled date, with your command's blessing.
The IG option is always available, but I would think you could take the APFT on another scheduled date, with your command's blessing.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Yes Chief, I have already requestsed an excused absence. I am just concerned with how policies are written. I think this policy leaves too much open for interpretation, and doesn't specifically allow additional reasonable absences. I think it would read better stating something like "unjustifed absences or absences due to appointments or meetings that could reasonably be rescheduled may result in a flag being initiated." Words matter, and I don't want a some poor unsuspecting soldier to get shafted in the future due to a poorly written policy.
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CW5 (Join to see)
Good point. Whoever wrote the policy letter does need to tighten it up a bit. As MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca said, though, it's easy to understand the command's position, especially if folks have been skipping the APFT for bogus reasons.
I hope things work out for you. It would be great if you posted a "happy ending" to this situation.
I hope things work out for you. It would be great if you posted a "happy ending" to this situation.
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SGT Kristin Wiley, agree with CW5 (Join to see) - Talk to the leadership and let them know. Failing that, you are well within your rights to talk to the IG any time you want (I always provided the phone # and email to any soldier that told me they were going to contact them), but make sure you are on solid ground before you do that route (think of an IG as a flashlight ... all it's going to do is reveal something that's being kept in the dark).
Is there another (part of that) policy that goes along with that one. For instance, "APFTs will always be executed on the first Wednesday of the month, so no appointments should be scheduled on that day" or something like that?
If everything is as you describe, then communications is the only real thing to do. This goes for you as well. If you are scheduling medical appointments, then notify your first line leader of them as soon as they are made. Then if something comes up after the fact, at least you can have your first line leader talk to the unit and defend your position that appointment was scheduled before the APFT list was put out.
Additionally, if you're coming up on 6 months since your last record, you know you can expect your name to be on the list .. so don't be surprised when it is. Very likely what the personnel folks are doing is running the list of folks in the unit, find out who is due, and put their name on the list.
Is there another (part of that) policy that goes along with that one. For instance, "APFTs will always be executed on the first Wednesday of the month, so no appointments should be scheduled on that day" or something like that?
If everything is as you describe, then communications is the only real thing to do. This goes for you as well. If you are scheduling medical appointments, then notify your first line leader of them as soon as they are made. Then if something comes up after the fact, at least you can have your first line leader talk to the unit and defend your position that appointment was scheduled before the APFT list was put out.
Additionally, if you're coming up on 6 months since your last record, you know you can expect your name to be on the list .. so don't be surprised when it is. Very likely what the personnel folks are doing is running the list of folks in the unit, find out who is due, and put their name on the list.
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Sir,
Not saying I'm going to IG, just saying I know I can utilze them if I feel my command is being unreasonable. Mostly concerned with how the policy is written. The policy states last Wednesday of every month; however, they changed it for this month.
The problem with my appointment scheduling is that my supervisor is a civilian and has no say in my Army mandated activities. My unit drafted an MOU that says the Army Element (Joint Command) owns me for physical fitness, technical readiness, training, and urinalysis. I expected my name to be on the list, and even showed up for the one last month when my name wasn't listed, but unbeknownst to me they cancelled it.
The communcation in my command is very lacking. I have a 'squad leader' for PT purposes who isn't even in my assigned unit, and a civilian supervisor for my mission related duties. Neither communicate with each other or with me, nor does the Army Element communicate with my command or notify them of what activities I am mandated to go to. I fill in the communication gaps when possible. My supervisor wants me working on mission requirements, and the element wants me working on Army requirements. I feel trapped in between the two, and neither party is protecting me from the reprecussions of the other. It's like I essentially belong to two different units.
Not saying I'm going to IG, just saying I know I can utilze them if I feel my command is being unreasonable. Mostly concerned with how the policy is written. The policy states last Wednesday of every month; however, they changed it for this month.
The problem with my appointment scheduling is that my supervisor is a civilian and has no say in my Army mandated activities. My unit drafted an MOU that says the Army Element (Joint Command) owns me for physical fitness, technical readiness, training, and urinalysis. I expected my name to be on the list, and even showed up for the one last month when my name wasn't listed, but unbeknownst to me they cancelled it.
The communcation in my command is very lacking. I have a 'squad leader' for PT purposes who isn't even in my assigned unit, and a civilian supervisor for my mission related duties. Neither communicate with each other or with me, nor does the Army Element communicate with my command or notify them of what activities I am mandated to go to. I fill in the communication gaps when possible. My supervisor wants me working on mission requirements, and the element wants me working on Army requirements. I feel trapped in between the two, and neither party is protecting me from the reprecussions of the other. It's like I essentially belong to two different units.
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COL Randall C.
SGT Kristin Wiley, understand the situation you're describing.
I suggest you take an innovative approach. If you're very worried about the medical appointments and the APFT conflicting, then make sure you're in regular communications with the Army Element personnel NCO. CC them on the emails you send your boss letting them know when your appointment is. Call them and ask about when the next APFT is scheduled (are you sure they aren't regularly scheduled on a certain day of the month?), etc.
I'm not saying this will absolutely work, but as you pointed out, communications are the root of the problem. Be the bigger person and try to solve the communication issue from your side.
What you're describing is what happens at every Brigade or higher staff (and it only gets worse the higher you go). In essence, you DO belong to two different units (or, more accurately, you have two different bosses). Your commander is responsible for the organization, ensuring that the soldiers in the 'echelons above reality' roles' still do the things that they are supposed to do, etc. Your operational boss is the one that makes sure the mission gets accomplished. A LOT of times they are at odds with each other battling over resources (i.e., YOU).
Sometimes the job of the unit is easy. Those are the one who's commander keeps constant communications with all going and has the backing of the senior officer of the unit (BDE CDR, CG, etc). Sometimes when the above doesn't happen, then the job is hard. Talk with your 1SG/CSM about the communications issue. Enlist the support of your operational boss to have the same conversation. Talk to the senior enlisted on the operational side and have them have the conversation with the unit regarding a better way to do business.
I suggest you take an innovative approach. If you're very worried about the medical appointments and the APFT conflicting, then make sure you're in regular communications with the Army Element personnel NCO. CC them on the emails you send your boss letting them know when your appointment is. Call them and ask about when the next APFT is scheduled (are you sure they aren't regularly scheduled on a certain day of the month?), etc.
I'm not saying this will absolutely work, but as you pointed out, communications are the root of the problem. Be the bigger person and try to solve the communication issue from your side.
What you're describing is what happens at every Brigade or higher staff (and it only gets worse the higher you go). In essence, you DO belong to two different units (or, more accurately, you have two different bosses). Your commander is responsible for the organization, ensuring that the soldiers in the 'echelons above reality' roles' still do the things that they are supposed to do, etc. Your operational boss is the one that makes sure the mission gets accomplished. A LOT of times they are at odds with each other battling over resources (i.e., YOU).
Sometimes the job of the unit is easy. Those are the one who's commander keeps constant communications with all going and has the backing of the senior officer of the unit (BDE CDR, CG, etc). Sometimes when the above doesn't happen, then the job is hard. Talk with your 1SG/CSM about the communications issue. Enlist the support of your operational boss to have the same conversation. Talk to the senior enlisted on the operational side and have them have the conversation with the unit regarding a better way to do business.
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The weekend drill with historically the lowest attendance is...
I think the command is trying to keep things in check. the threat of flagging for not showing up is a nice tool. (Damn, wish I had thought of that way back when) Yes an APFT can be administered at any time, but that takes folks away from their normal duties, if PVT Schmedlap decides not to show up for the scheduled event and needs to take it "whenever". If we had SMs going to schools we administered APFTs within 30 days of their ship date, because we had so many failing out of the school on day 1 because of the APFT. These were also scheduled in advance to get as many SMs done in one test as possible. Yes there are always be "real" medical reasons for skipping an APFT but they should be a very small minority not 1/3 of the unit.
I think the command is trying to keep things in check. the threat of flagging for not showing up is a nice tool. (Damn, wish I had thought of that way back when) Yes an APFT can be administered at any time, but that takes folks away from their normal duties, if PVT Schmedlap decides not to show up for the scheduled event and needs to take it "whenever". If we had SMs going to schools we administered APFTs within 30 days of their ship date, because we had so many failing out of the school on day 1 because of the APFT. These were also scheduled in advance to get as many SMs done in one test as possible. Yes there are always be "real" medical reasons for skipping an APFT but they should be a very small minority not 1/3 of the unit.
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COL Randall C.
SGT Kristin Wiley, there are two sides to the flag statement - "the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed" and "or when directed by the commanding officer". You just stated that the unit is conducting an APFT every month. You know that you are required by the regulation to take the APFT every 6 months. Why wait until the unit tells you that you are out (or almost out) of compliance and must take the APFT?
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you on this issue, but I have a very low tolerance for the "APFT avoiders" (I'm NOT saying you are one of those). Most of the time if simple communications were kept open between the soldier and their leadership chain, then any conflicts could be quickly resolved. Instead, it usually ended up with the soldier missing the APFT followed by some type of excuse.
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, flagging works well. I stumbled upon that while in command (I too was facing the low turnout) and came up with the following policy (in a nutshell)
- Full unit APFT will be XXXX (this was put out months in advanced). Additionally everyone's last APFT date is posted so they know the information I'm tracking.
- Don't show up? You're flagged.
- Fail it? You're flagged.
- Go outside of the window, you're notified to take the next one ... magically have a profile appear? You're flagged (since the profile didn't exist when you went outside the window ... 'soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed')
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you on this issue, but I have a very low tolerance for the "APFT avoiders" (I'm NOT saying you are one of those). Most of the time if simple communications were kept open between the soldier and their leadership chain, then any conflicts could be quickly resolved. Instead, it usually ended up with the soldier missing the APFT followed by some type of excuse.
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, flagging works well. I stumbled upon that while in command (I too was facing the low turnout) and came up with the following policy (in a nutshell)
- Full unit APFT will be XXXX (this was put out months in advanced). Additionally everyone's last APFT date is posted so they know the information I'm tracking.
- Don't show up? You're flagged.
- Fail it? You're flagged.
- Go outside of the window, you're notified to take the next one ... magically have a profile appear? You're flagged (since the profile didn't exist when you went outside the window ... 'soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed')
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Sir,
If you read my response to you above, I showed up for the APFT the previous month, but it was cancelled and I was never notified (this prior to being on the 'roster'). I was also diagnosed with Asthma last month, which normally would have caused my doctor to put me on a temp profile, but I asked not to be since I already had a permanent one already limiting my activities. Before they changed the date of the APFT this month I even emailed them to ensure I was scheduled and was planning on taking the APFT (prior to my medical appointment being scheduled). I am not trying to avoid taking one, but I believe the policy needs to be written more reasonably.
If you read my response to you above, I showed up for the APFT the previous month, but it was cancelled and I was never notified (this prior to being on the 'roster'). I was also diagnosed with Asthma last month, which normally would have caused my doctor to put me on a temp profile, but I asked not to be since I already had a permanent one already limiting my activities. Before they changed the date of the APFT this month I even emailed them to ensure I was scheduled and was planning on taking the APFT (prior to my medical appointment being scheduled). I am not trying to avoid taking one, but I believe the policy needs to be written more reasonably.
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COL Randall C.
SGT Kristin Wiley, agree with your comments. I'm not exactly sure of what you're looking to take away from the discussion thread? If it is agreement that the policy seems extremely rigid, then you have it. If it's suggestions how to alleviate your situation, then I propose that better communications are the key (if they won't do it to you, then open it further from your side).
I did read your comment above about going the previous month and it being canceled. In that case, what did the Commander or NCOIC say when you brought it to their attention? Especially since this months APFT conflicts with a medical appointment that you notified them of last month?
See where I'm heading? If you keep the information flow open from your side, then it is VERY likely the Commander will be amiable to excusing you ... especially if you're proactively trying to make his/her life easier (trying to take the APFT before you're out of compliance, keeping the unit informed of your appointments, etc).
When you're in those EAR units (Echelons Above Reality), many times the unit has absolutely no idea of the status of soldiers because communication never comes their way. "What do you mean SGT Wiley is TDY for 2 months? She was supposed to be the NCOIC for the special whatever-it-is assignment this month!"
I did read your comment above about going the previous month and it being canceled. In that case, what did the Commander or NCOIC say when you brought it to their attention? Especially since this months APFT conflicts with a medical appointment that you notified them of last month?
See where I'm heading? If you keep the information flow open from your side, then it is VERY likely the Commander will be amiable to excusing you ... especially if you're proactively trying to make his/her life easier (trying to take the APFT before you're out of compliance, keeping the unit informed of your appointments, etc).
When you're in those EAR units (Echelons Above Reality), many times the unit has absolutely no idea of the status of soldiers because communication never comes their way. "What do you mean SGT Wiley is TDY for 2 months? She was supposed to be the NCOIC for the special whatever-it-is assignment this month!"
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