Posted on Sep 14, 2014
Does anyone else have an issue with their S-1 shop not generating a 4187 before or after moving you or another SM to a sister battalion?
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What can be the consequences of not having the proper paperwork if you are moved for a long period of time within the same brigade?
Aviation
PCS
DA Form 4187
Posted 10 y ago
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SFC (Join to see) intra-brigade transfer orders (used to move personnel between battalions within the same brigade) are published by the Brigade S1 and are typically produced as a DA 4187. Unit level commanders (company commanders) are responsible for signing the AAA-162 Personnel Accountability Report on a monthly basis. If someone is listed or not listed on the AAA-162, then the commander is responsible for coordinating with the S1 to correct the issue and get orders published. There are no "consequences" to the Soldier for not having the proper orders, but a commander could be held responsible for failing to maintain proper accountability of personnel. This is really a simply thing to correct and is a 1SG issue to monitor.
There are other consequences for and reasons why the Soldier needs a copy of the orders. It provides them with justification for updating their ERB correctly and it shows what unit is responsible for their evaluation report.
There are other consequences for and reasons why the Soldier needs a copy of the orders. It provides them with justification for updating their ERB correctly and it shows what unit is responsible for their evaluation report.
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1SG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) you are correct as to how the S1 will execute the movement. But I was referring to what gives the S1 the authority to move someone. Commanders direct the movement of personnel and the 4187 is the legal justification for an S1 to do the function you describe. A Soldier can't just show up at another unit, there must have been an order to move him, otherwise we'd have Soldiers switching units because they want to.
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MAJ(P) (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) - Not to trouble shoot you, but simply to pass along the general rule of thumb for intra BN/BDE/POST transfers. The S1 should not "PCS Depart" a Soldier from one BN to the next. When a Soldier signs out on PCS leave and departs post, then 'yes,' the BN S1 needs to PCS Depart that Soldier. It helps clear the 162 and gives the gaining unit notice of the Soldier fails to report on time. Unfortunately, too many S1s do not properly PCS Depart Soldiers and it wrecks havoc with regards to non-availables and over due PRR data.
The only true thing that needs to occur is for the new BN to "Arrive" the Soldier in eMIPLO once they have the signed 4187 from the BDE strength manager. You are correct, it is a very simple process, however, as an AG guy, we have a known TTP that dictates when to PSC Depart someone. We go this route simply because if we PCS Depart someone during an intra-unit transfer and the gaining S1 fails to Arrive the Soldier timely (for whatever reason), a red star cluster is shot up and it is a mess to clear it up. All of a sudden it turns into an FTR that is noted at the Corps level.
The only true thing that needs to occur is for the new BN to "Arrive" the Soldier in eMIPLO once they have the signed 4187 from the BDE strength manager. You are correct, it is a very simple process, however, as an AG guy, we have a known TTP that dictates when to PSC Depart someone. We go this route simply because if we PCS Depart someone during an intra-unit transfer and the gaining S1 fails to Arrive the Soldier timely (for whatever reason), a red star cluster is shot up and it is a mess to clear it up. All of a sudden it turns into an FTR that is noted at the Corps level.
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1SG (Join to see)
Exactly Captain Blakeslee. I have seen this happen and it makes the Company Commander look crazy if he signs the 162 after that happens.
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1SG (Join to see)
SFC Joseph Benavidez, yes I failed to mention that part of the process. You are correct but I personally hold that Soldier accountable for the 4187 because they usually are aware that this process is taking place and they have the ability to put the pressure on the Command to sign the 4187 (unless you're low ranking).
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I would be concerned about what Paragraph and line number you are sitting in SFC (Join to see), it makes a difference with your evaluations and ERB Lining up properly.
Another thing to think about is your PCS Award; you might want a letter of continuity from the previous Unit to justify a nice award upon PCS.
Another thing to think about is your PCS Award; you might want a letter of continuity from the previous Unit to justify a nice award upon PCS.
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Well they SHOULD be doing it. Usually it is done in house something the Brigade will do you might not see the paperwork but the S1' will be traking that information because it can be easliy emailed.
What could be the consequences, well if there is an emergency and they need to find you and you are not at that battalion then, yeah that's a no. I would suggest going to the S1 and track that paperwork down or see if the Brigade has it. Because someone somewhere knows where it is at.
What could be the consequences, well if there is an emergency and they need to find you and you are not at that battalion then, yeah that's a no. I would suggest going to the S1 and track that paperwork down or see if the Brigade has it. Because someone somewhere knows where it is at.
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