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This discussion about Vladimir Putin being manly kind of reminds me of the Reagan Era. How we present ourselves is actually a layer of security. Meaning the withering criticism is unfair, in the respect that International and National security rely on respect.
Today we have the perfect storm where individual freedom and common sense had collided. On one hand the respect for the office or rather the lack thereof. That is becoming a big problem.
Here is my take. I served at the very end of the Vietnam-era and Cold War. I worked at Ramstein and let's just say the place was political. In otherwords, what we said had value insofar as the public's perception of me and the Military.
It is one thing to publicly disgrace the president and quite another to generally criticize him, especially as a Veteran or Retired member of the services.
OPSEC matters and public perception is critical to getting anything done. I can assure you that both President Obama and to some extent President Bush like all presidents are under terrible stress.
Pictures of Obama with his kids, I say leave that ALONE. Having fun with his kids are cool, so leave them and then their personal life out of it.
The President has made mistakes and according to some of us, maybe too many. The problem with a pervasive disrespect is the role it has on the international community. So, we get back to that and besides it is stepping on toes.
The government has it's checks and balances and the Administration and supporters have caviled at past presidents and without mentioning names of those presidents, this happens on both sides.
I was irritated by a sense of censorship over something relatively benign. Partisan hackery is an an affront to all of us when it compromises a mission.
And for many the idea of grass-laden aircraft with the President's name was in fun, but the Soviet-minded Putin uses this like a politically correct tool and now the shoe is on the other foot. I suggest that we mind our words regardless of the POTUS. Calling President Bush a war criminal, a monkey and thinking it funny when people throw shoes at him need to just shut-up.
Today we have the perfect storm where individual freedom and common sense had collided. On one hand the respect for the office or rather the lack thereof. That is becoming a big problem.
Here is my take. I served at the very end of the Vietnam-era and Cold War. I worked at Ramstein and let's just say the place was political. In otherwords, what we said had value insofar as the public's perception of me and the Military.
It is one thing to publicly disgrace the president and quite another to generally criticize him, especially as a Veteran or Retired member of the services.
OPSEC matters and public perception is critical to getting anything done. I can assure you that both President Obama and to some extent President Bush like all presidents are under terrible stress.
Pictures of Obama with his kids, I say leave that ALONE. Having fun with his kids are cool, so leave them and then their personal life out of it.
The President has made mistakes and according to some of us, maybe too many. The problem with a pervasive disrespect is the role it has on the international community. So, we get back to that and besides it is stepping on toes.
The government has it's checks and balances and the Administration and supporters have caviled at past presidents and without mentioning names of those presidents, this happens on both sides.
I was irritated by a sense of censorship over something relatively benign. Partisan hackery is an an affront to all of us when it compromises a mission.
And for many the idea of grass-laden aircraft with the President's name was in fun, but the Soviet-minded Putin uses this like a politically correct tool and now the shoe is on the other foot. I suggest that we mind our words regardless of the POTUS. Calling President Bush a war criminal, a monkey and thinking it funny when people throw shoes at him need to just shut-up.
Respect
Office of the President (POTUS)
Barack Obama
Family
George W. Bush
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 11
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I kind of see both sides. While I agree that we have to be respectful of the office, we also shouldn't take that to mean that the office is above criticism....but it should be honest, performance based criticism, not name calling, cajoling, etc.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Uneducated masses. Whom can you blame? In a sense, everyone to a degree, but shouldn't. Just understand and be kind with ignorant. Remember, forgive them for they know not what they're doing
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LTC Stephen C.
SGT Richard H., here are President Theodore Roosevelt's thoughts on the need for truth in regards to the presidency:
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
SSgt (Join to see)
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
SSgt (Join to see)
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SGT Richard H.
LTC Stephen C. That's exactly what I was saying, but much better stated by President Roosevelt. I hadn't read that particular quote before, so thanks for sharing!
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LTC Stephen C.
SGT Richard H., you said it well enough, but I thought the words of one president articulating his thoughts on all presidents were weighty! I should also add that he made this statement to the Kansas City Star newspaper in the last year of his life, so his comments, in my opinion, were directed to the general public, a civilian population. They are nonetheless, timeless in their application.
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Although I am not a fan of this administration I do not like some of the nasty comments made. Didn't care for them when they where throwing them at Mr. Bush either. That part of politics really needs to stop, there is no reason to be nasty. But one thing that continues to bother me is the defense of this administration by blaming and attacking former President Bush. Cant this administration stand on its own merits. What happens on your watch regardless of what you may or may not have inherited is on you. A new commander of a unit can not blame poor performance on the previous commander. Its his/her job to correct what might be perceived to be wrong. To make the unit better in his/her vision. Nobody is ever going to completely agree on the ideas of your visions. That is human nature to disagree. But as mom use to say. "If you only have nasty words to say shut your mouth".
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SGT Anthony Bussing
Capt Jeff S. - oh boo fuckin hoo...it took you five months to come up with a reply? yeah, obama is SUCH a loser...wrong...best president we have had in past 15 years...oh yeah...I can down vote also...
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MSgt (Join to see)
SGT Anthony Bussing
Best President, sorry that would be a matter of opinion! Glad you believe that with such conviction but others do not.
Best President, sorry that would be a matter of opinion! Glad you believe that with such conviction but others do not.
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SGM (Join to see)
SGT Anthony Bussing, I can't think of ANY other job in the world where SIX FULL YEARS after you got the job, you are still blaming the previous holder. And if you are going to claim, "smoking ruin", and, "destroyed", you should at least give CONCRETE, VERIFIABLE EXAMPLES, other than the standard liberal whine, "If everyone would just shut up and let us run the country how we want to, everything will be roses and rainbows."
I call BS (and I'll spell it out, if you want me to.) The problem with liberal theory remains that sooner or later you run out of other people's money to spend.
I call BS (and I'll spell it out, if you want me to.) The problem with liberal theory remains that sooner or later you run out of other people's money to spend.
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An interesting discussion and I'm pleased that the rhetoric one usually finds on Internet discussion threads concerning this topic is missing. Anyone who has the temerity to attack the President or defend him is subject to ad hominem attacks. Not here. That says a lot for the members of Rally Point.
So, allow me to respectfully submit the following for your consideration...
(1) We have the government and elected officials we deserve. Indeed, I would argue that every nation must admit the same. I subscribe whole-heartedly to the principles enunciated in the Declaration of Independence, especially that portion which states that people have the right to alter or abolish any government that does not serve them well. In many nations suffering tyranny, the people must take up arms. If they don't, they deserve tyranny. We are fortunate in that we can revolt with our ballots. Sadly, we don't. We reelect the same people time and again regardless of their malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance. In all case, we deserve what we get.
(2) There are many well-founded and well-reasoned arguments for criticizing this President and we have every right to express them. Most of those who attack the critics as racists or partisans, simply can't come up with their own well-founded and well-reasoned counter-arguments.
(3) If we were to all lock arms and stand behind our President regardless of his performance, would that make his performance acceptable? Would other nations ignore his missteps and say, gee, he must be a great President. All the Americans seem to think so. Or, would they look past the smoke screen and see that the emperor has no clothes? Would the bullies of the world behave themselves if We the People stop complaining that the President's words of appeasement are only tempting the bullies to misbehave?
(4) This is a mixed venue of active duty service members and veterans. Is it possible that veterans are more vocal than the average citizen because they lived with a muzzle while on active duty? (Note to those on active duty: Don't risk your careers. Just sit back and enjoy the show while we veterans speak out on your behalf.)
Best to all
So, allow me to respectfully submit the following for your consideration...
(1) We have the government and elected officials we deserve. Indeed, I would argue that every nation must admit the same. I subscribe whole-heartedly to the principles enunciated in the Declaration of Independence, especially that portion which states that people have the right to alter or abolish any government that does not serve them well. In many nations suffering tyranny, the people must take up arms. If they don't, they deserve tyranny. We are fortunate in that we can revolt with our ballots. Sadly, we don't. We reelect the same people time and again regardless of their malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance. In all case, we deserve what we get.
(2) There are many well-founded and well-reasoned arguments for criticizing this President and we have every right to express them. Most of those who attack the critics as racists or partisans, simply can't come up with their own well-founded and well-reasoned counter-arguments.
(3) If we were to all lock arms and stand behind our President regardless of his performance, would that make his performance acceptable? Would other nations ignore his missteps and say, gee, he must be a great President. All the Americans seem to think so. Or, would they look past the smoke screen and see that the emperor has no clothes? Would the bullies of the world behave themselves if We the People stop complaining that the President's words of appeasement are only tempting the bullies to misbehave?
(4) This is a mixed venue of active duty service members and veterans. Is it possible that veterans are more vocal than the average citizen because they lived with a muzzle while on active duty? (Note to those on active duty: Don't risk your careers. Just sit back and enjoy the show while we veterans speak out on your behalf.)
Best to all
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SSgt (Join to see)
Very sensible and the truth! I have often used this analogy of the Emperor's lack of clothing and time and again, throughout history we see blind allegiance and very little substance. However the bad guys see this and there is no gray area with them at all. They want the USA to suffer.
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SGT Anthony Bussing
"(2) There are many well-founded and well-reasoned arguments for criticizing this President and we have every right to express them. Most of those who attack the critics as racists or partisans, simply can't come up with their own well-founded and well-reasoned counter-arguments."
and then...there are those who attack the president....based on his skin color, but arent man enough to admit it...Obama has not any more mis-steps then Reagan, Bush I Bush II, Clinton, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon etc...Bush II couldnt even put a simple sentence together for a constructive thought...and that isnt me hating on him...its the truth...go back and google "bush misspeaks" "bushisms"....
and then...there are those who attack the president....based on his skin color, but arent man enough to admit it...Obama has not any more mis-steps then Reagan, Bush I Bush II, Clinton, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon etc...Bush II couldnt even put a simple sentence together for a constructive thought...and that isnt me hating on him...its the truth...go back and google "bush misspeaks" "bushisms"....
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