Posted on Dec 24, 2016
Is it possible to take UCMJ action against an officer for disrespecting an NCO?
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Posted 8 y ago
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Maybe conduct unbecoming. It depends on the situation, but the supervisor of the officer has lots of tools to fix the behavior as well. We would like to think respect goes both ways, but the disrespect would have to be pretty extreme for it to actually be a ucmj issue. Use your nco support channel as I have seen officers removed for doing dumb things, especially LT's.
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PO1 Harry Champagne
just a question is the term BUCK SGT.still used? seem to remember in the early 60,s it was used t I.D. E-5 SGT.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
PO1 Harry Champagne - in my experience it is an uncommon phrase. Maybe it is used more in other areas or services.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
PO1 Harry Champagne - depends it means bottom. So if you call as slick sleeve a buck Private then a 3 striper would be a buck Sergeant
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One officer that was charged with conduct unbecoming an Officer while I was stationed at Hanscom AFB, MA for His response to being stopped by the Security Police. The Base Commander not only took action against that Officer, a Captain but also brought Him to the Security Police Station and made Him apologize in front of everybody and told the Captain, "We don't want people like You in the Air Force, You are a disgrace to Your uniform. You even so much as sneeze I'll rip Your Captains bars off ! I'm also giving You a direct order, next time You talk to a Security Policeman , You will address Him as Sir, they are all superior to You. I'm sure that Captain felt about 2 feet tall at that point. The Base Commander also said, "You made a spectacle of a Security Policeman in front of everyone, how does it feel to have it happen to You ? You also better understand the Security Police represent Me, and carry out My orders, You show disrespect to them that is disrespect to Me ! Last problem we ever had with that Captain.
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COL (Join to see)
That’s a lot of shit talking. You can’t remove bars off an officer without a general courts marshal. That usually includes jail time. I’ve done it as a Company commander; it’s not that easy.
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As you stated it no, by reg the officer can not be charged with disrespecting an enlisted person...as least directly like an enlisted person could be.
Art 91 Insubordination only addresses "“Any warrant officer or enlisted member who" .
Officers can not be the actor in this article.
Art 133 - Conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman
“Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused did or omitted to do certain acts; and
(2) That, under the circumstances, these acts or omissions constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
That said,
my guess is, it would need to be public and completely unrelated to a actual or perceived "thing" the officer was correcting.
"Look SGT, I'll date your little sister anytime I want, shes 16, legal in this state and I only give her wine at the house, if you bring this up again, I'll stick you on motor pool guard for the next 10 weekends"
Otherwise, if the shenanigans were in response to a correction, even when done poorly, even in error, the senior officer that got wind of it would likely make the correction though counseling and negative reinforcement...lol
Art 91 Insubordination only addresses "“Any warrant officer or enlisted member who" .
Officers can not be the actor in this article.
Art 133 - Conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman
“Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused did or omitted to do certain acts; and
(2) That, under the circumstances, these acts or omissions constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
That said,
my guess is, it would need to be public and completely unrelated to a actual or perceived "thing" the officer was correcting.
"Look SGT, I'll date your little sister anytime I want, shes 16, legal in this state and I only give her wine at the house, if you bring this up again, I'll stick you on motor pool guard for the next 10 weekends"
Otherwise, if the shenanigans were in response to a correction, even when done poorly, even in error, the senior officer that got wind of it would likely make the correction though counseling and negative reinforcement...lol
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SFC (Join to see)
You forgot to add as long as the order is not immoral or unsafe. If you are being disrespected, document it. Be respectful at all times and take it higher
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MSgt Michael Lane
This is a clear case of PICK YOUR BATTELS this is one road you can’t come back on. If you start down this road you better be sure the disrespect is something you can’t get over because if you lose and possibly even if you win you can still lose, particularly if you are a junior NCO your life could be made hell.
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SSG Wayne Wood
Totally agree with the idea of picking your battles wisely. Remember these ways have a way of working themselves out eventually. One of the things I loved about the military in general is EVERYONE has a boss and answers to SOMEONE. An officer who abuses his authority on a regular basis won't go far. His superiors will note the unprofessionalism and it will come back to haunt him (I remember one incident in particular where a LTC showed great disrespect to a SGM; I learned through the grapevine - though it was never publicized - his OER suffered).
By the same token, we used to have a slogan, "Mission First - People Always!" We are in the people business - it's not a popularity contest but troops have ways of dealing with toxic leadership they don't respect. Just My Observation - not a recommendation or suggestion.
Bottom line - is these things work themselves out one way or another. As we also used to say, "Suck it up and drive on." If he isn't ordering you to do something illegal... One of the reasons I am so thankful for every time I had to stand at attention while my Drill Sergeant questioned my parentage...
By the same token, we used to have a slogan, "Mission First - People Always!" We are in the people business - it's not a popularity contest but troops have ways of dealing with toxic leadership they don't respect. Just My Observation - not a recommendation or suggestion.
Bottom line - is these things work themselves out one way or another. As we also used to say, "Suck it up and drive on." If he isn't ordering you to do something illegal... One of the reasons I am so thankful for every time I had to stand at attention while my Drill Sergeant questioned my parentage...
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SSgt Wood, The fact the person was enlisted, Me wasn't the issue, the fact He had failed to comply with policy and directives, regulation and created a public disturbance through His conduct to a person with the authority to enforce those regulations was the issue. His conduct was documented on a DD Form 1569, Incident Complain Form and statement were taken by witnesses and also placed on AF Form 53, Security Police Desk Blotter, (the shift log) On a daily basis the Base Commander read these documents. This is one of those cases of confusing rank with authority and a clear cut case of misconduct IAW the UCMJ and was very effective due to the support from the Installation Commander.
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