Posted on Aug 24, 2014
CPO Jon Campbell
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Some fields rely heavily on OJT instead of more expensive formal training. I have seen OJT degenerate into a way to pass on shortcuts, poor work ethic, and general ignorance. How many 'generations' removed should OJT be used before knowledge gaps occur? (A person who is formally trained trains another, who trains another, etc.)
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MSG Wade Huffman
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OJT has always been an excellent form of training (when utilized correctly) both in the military and in the civilian sector (think apprenticeships) and have been successfully used both, in conjunction with, and in lieu of formal training depending on the job and circumstances.
Formal training is almost always preferred, at least as a 'baseline' but is not always practical.
I would state that the most important factor in the prevention of degeneration would be the selection of the trainer. As far as going generations without formal training, that would indeed become an issue, but I don't see this as a common problem. Equipment changes alone would normally require even experienced workers to receive some formal training along the way just to keep up.
Again, all generalizations here. Naturally things are much different between, say, a carpenter and a neurosurgeon. But those would be my thoughts in general.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
MSG(P) Michael Warrick
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The army should bring back OJT as it was a good thing but have some strict guidelines with it !
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There is no adequate substitute for OJT training in combat medicine, triage, and surgery . . . nothing else is comparable!

You can go to any school you like, try simulators etc . . . try to save pig lives . . . but there is nothing like trying to save wounded human lives in country . . . the heat, pressure, sights, sounds, textures, and smells are overwhelming . . .
SSG Operations Sergeant
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Ma'am, do you believe as a first responder there must an even set of formal training and ongoing OJT, almost as concurrent training so to speak? I wouldn't imagine that there a very few situations that are alike in nature, each have different variables with different approaches.
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SSG (Join to see). Dead on!!! Bullseye!!! You got that ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! You must drill on protocols, procedures, and theory constantly when things are slow and calm. You OJT train when things get busy but not too busy. You rely on what you learned in drill and OJT training during DUSTOFF/MEDEVAC and more so when MASSCAL hits!!! I'm old school . . . what is your approach now? Warmest Regards, Sandy
SSG Operations Sergeant
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Ma'am, being an MP and working an first responder role and getting back to serving in the Law Enforcement role it is paramount that there is no such thing as a "routine" call for any situation or location. Again ma'am I can only speak for what my current USAMPS intent now, and that's getting back to our role as Law Enforcement and the profession of Arms. It has been lost for so many years, and getting a call to respond to something so vague as "medical emergency" not knowing what the situation can hold, or what lead up to it, Formal training starts the initial response, then on scene after experience of OJT, successes and failures will only lead to the wisdom of how to negotiate THAT specific call and the variables at the for front. My struggles as a leader and helping them see how use these tools for training when not on shift, applying a communication exercise. Each statement taken is different then the one prior, that's is because of perception of messages. Fact finding, details of everything... Medical emergencies for example, to communicate to EMS after the fact, everything about that patient on scene. I hope this makes sense ma'am. Apologies for long response. Have a clam Sunday
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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Excellent question CPO Jon Campbell . I'm one that believes OJT is a good thing - if there is no other path available. Too many times in my career did I see some young sailor trying to get a "B" or "C" school but for one reason or another (usually command politics) there weren't enough billets available to get the sailor in the schools.

I agree - a bad set of intruction can lead to an improperly prepared tech. However, I've always wondered how the infamous shortcuts ever got started...obviously the shortcuts work or they wouldn't be passed on. Certainly I realize some shortcuts are dangerous. That reminds me of a situation on a ship I was on - the C.O. had decreed that only an electrician's mate could remove wiring from any piece of gear. Why? Because anyone without proper experience and knowlege might not test for current before disassembly. Makes sense, unless you have the pre-requisite knowlege and experience. One does NOT have to be an electrician to know how to properly ground, etc., and test with a meter on board a ship. The decree went so far as to limit the use of meters to ONLY EM's. Seriously?

But I digress. I think, if the person conducting the training (OJT) has been fully trained then, that's pretty much as far as you would want to go for anything beyond the basics or "A" school level. I certainly wouldn't want the OJT trainee to be the next instructor down the line until the OJT trainee got some formal schooling.
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CDR Thomas Gatliffe
CDR Thomas Gatliffe
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While I was at NAVSEACENLANT, one express task our techs had when providing tech assist visits was to give OJT to anyone on the ship that they could help. Part of their formal post-ship-assist report was to describe the type and extent of OJT provided. We also encouraged the forward deployed battle group commanders to interview our techs to see where they could be helpful to any of his other ships and helo them around for as long as there were problems they could address before arranging their return to CONUS. Our techs (mostly retired E-6 through E8 but some active duty) understood our job was fleet support and didn't mind staying out longer as long as they could contribute from their accumulated knowledge and experience.
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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CDR Thomas Gatliffe You or your compatriots may well have been on one or more of my ships while I was assigned to LantFlt. I requested and used those experts on every opportunity I can assure you. Glad you brought that up!
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