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We can all admit that the situation has gotten completely out of control in Ferguson. The locals have no respect for authority and law enforcement and been destroying their own town. Now the Army National Guard has been called to assist.
Here is where my concerns lie. The National Guard is filled with local citizens that are likely from the very town where they will be sent to quell civil disturbance. As a commander some of my biggest concerns would be:
1) Refusal by unit members that support the protestors to show up for muster and/or refuse to take part in any actions in their own town.
2) Concern for retaliation against the families of unit personnel from that community.
3) Unit members themselves being ostracized by their own community.
4) Sending equipped, armed and trained personnel into the situation and not knowing where their allegiances are and then they turn on their own.
This is a very tricky situation that is going to end with a lot of injuries and bloodshed if it gets out of control.
Here is where my concerns lie. The National Guard is filled with local citizens that are likely from the very town where they will be sent to quell civil disturbance. As a commander some of my biggest concerns would be:
1) Refusal by unit members that support the protestors to show up for muster and/or refuse to take part in any actions in their own town.
2) Concern for retaliation against the families of unit personnel from that community.
3) Unit members themselves being ostracized by their own community.
4) Sending equipped, armed and trained personnel into the situation and not knowing where their allegiances are and then they turn on their own.
This is a very tricky situation that is going to end with a lot of injuries and bloodshed if it gets out of control.
Posted in these groups: 
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
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Here's my take. The police have IMHO mismanaged this whole situation. The riot control agent tactics need to stop as its only inciting the crowds even more. They had the right idea with the use of the state police, but you can't have state police officers in there both supporting AND trying to diffuse the crowd at the same time.
If the NG is sent in it needs to be as a defensive containment force ONLY. Unfortunately not even active MP units are equipped with the necessary less than lethal gear or training for crowd control. All they need is to add local NG troops untrained in LTL force being accused of using excessive force to this disaster. I think the best they can do is set up perimeters around business areas to prevent the looting and put a heavy patrol presence on the streets in an effort to deter the mob behaviors - a simple SHOW of force in HMMWVs, no weapons visible. Have a state policeman in each vehicle to do the arresting/handling/processing of criminal behaviors, NG should be 100% hands off except in protecting property and police officers defensively.
If the NG is sent in it needs to be as a defensive containment force ONLY. Unfortunately not even active MP units are equipped with the necessary less than lethal gear or training for crowd control. All they need is to add local NG troops untrained in LTL force being accused of using excessive force to this disaster. I think the best they can do is set up perimeters around business areas to prevent the looting and put a heavy patrol presence on the streets in an effort to deter the mob behaviors - a simple SHOW of force in HMMWVs, no weapons visible. Have a state policeman in each vehicle to do the arresting/handling/processing of criminal behaviors, NG should be 100% hands off except in protecting property and police officers defensively.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Good to see some things have changed MSG(P) Michael Warrick for the better!
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SSG (Join to see)
When I returned from my Iraq deployment with the 772 MPs from MA, we spent the first year back supporting pre-deployment training for our Inf and then rolled into Law Enforcement/Crowd Control/Civil Disturbance training.
From the sounds of it the Gov of MO could take some notes from Gov Patrick (I can't believe I'm saying that) on the effective use of NG MPs in a LE support role. ie. Boston Marathon bombing.
From the sounds of it the Gov of MO could take some notes from Gov Patrick (I can't believe I'm saying that) on the effective use of NG MPs in a LE support role. ie. Boston Marathon bombing.
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MSG (Join to see)
MAJ petrarca, I agree with you, our military police is undertrained and clearly not supplied with the right equipment. I can attest that while I worked at the school house much of the focus for training was irrelevant to their mission at hand. For example the crowd control classes were eliminated from the POI in order to accommodate a class for COPS which is very important by the way, but most soldiers still don't know how to properly use even while at their permanent duty stations and which NG and RC will never see again, but things like crowd control was eliminated? Yet as a DS I had several cycles in which 75-80% of soldiers going through we're from the guard and reserve, and who were more likely to be called for these missions and support crowd dispersal. Again as an MP I understand both points of view, but I must say we train under one standard and yes LE should be stressed specially since the school house is accredited as a formal LE academy, and crowd control should be greatly stressed or all three Army components.
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The Army National Guard is not in the habit of populating its forces with individuals known to be easily compromised professionally. Every member of the military is from local communities, whether they live there any longer or not.
To assume that members of the Army National Guard, whether from a local community or not, is easily influenced by a situation into compromising his professionalism and duties sounds like the opinion of someone that doesn't have much confidence or faith in the Army National Guard to accomplish its mission. Haven't we proven ourselves over and over again in the past 13 years? Must our professionalism, and Values in general be questioned on every turn? Without reasonable cause or evidence to boot.
How about we allow the Army National Guard to do the mission it was trained to do before we decide they are incapable of doing it. The fact that some of them are from the local community is irrelevant and has no bearing on whether a soldier will perform his duties or not. That's no different than saying a police officer will fail at his duties because he is from the local community and may get ostracized or unfairly treated afterwards.
To assume that members of the Army National Guard, whether from a local community or not, is easily influenced by a situation into compromising his professionalism and duties sounds like the opinion of someone that doesn't have much confidence or faith in the Army National Guard to accomplish its mission. Haven't we proven ourselves over and over again in the past 13 years? Must our professionalism, and Values in general be questioned on every turn? Without reasonable cause or evidence to boot.
How about we allow the Army National Guard to do the mission it was trained to do before we decide they are incapable of doing it. The fact that some of them are from the local community is irrelevant and has no bearing on whether a soldier will perform his duties or not. That's no different than saying a police officer will fail at his duties because he is from the local community and may get ostracized or unfairly treated afterwards.
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1SG Frank Rocha
I say let the guard do its job. The Active Army certainly isn't trained for the task, its not their mission. Neither is the Army reserve. The rules of engagement will be spelled out quite clearly I am sure of it. Its no different than any other mission.
And yes I was offended by the original post, it seemed uninformed and biased to say the least.
And yes I was offended by the original post, it seemed uninformed and biased to say the least.
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SFC (Join to see)
I think many are reading too far into my post and wearing their hearts on their sleeves. I see and have seen no difference between active and guard forces and their capabilities. However I have seen and reported on insider threats from all branches. I made no accusation that NG troops were incapable so I'm confused where that assumption came from.
Research will show that many members of our armed forces despite taking oaths have allowed their ideology to take first seat. There were many over the past decade of war that refused to serve due to their opinion of the war and some because they were Muslim themselves and felt it was against their beliefs to kill other Muslims.
The comment about filling ranks with people who are easily compromised is completely without merit. As a former recruiter I can tell you that I never knew a persons deep seated beliefs when they joined. Did I enlist people who may have had controversial standings? Probably but they were not known to me or anyone else at the time. As an MP I can tell you without a doubt that gang members, supremacists and others with beliefs against Army values have made it into our ranks.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
Research will show that many members of our armed forces despite taking oaths have allowed their ideology to take first seat. There were many over the past decade of war that refused to serve due to their opinion of the war and some because they were Muslim themselves and felt it was against their beliefs to kill other Muslims.
The comment about filling ranks with people who are easily compromised is completely without merit. As a former recruiter I can tell you that I never knew a persons deep seated beliefs when they joined. Did I enlist people who may have had controversial standings? Probably but they were not known to me or anyone else at the time. As an MP I can tell you without a doubt that gang members, supremacists and others with beliefs against Army values have made it into our ranks.
Please don't put words in my mouth.
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SFC (Join to see)
Maj. Nidal Hasan : Fort Hood Shooting
Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar: Kuwait grenade attacks
Sgt. Travis Bishop: refused to deploy, believed occupation was illegal.
Spc. Victor Agosto: refused to deploy, felt the war was unjust.
1st Lt. Ehren Watada : refused to deploy, felt the war was unjust
There is a long list of soldiers who took the same oath as you and I and their beliefs changed.
Check out the page linked here:
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/MIG/threats.asp
Sergeant Hasan Karim Akbar: Kuwait grenade attacks
Sgt. Travis Bishop: refused to deploy, believed occupation was illegal.
Spc. Victor Agosto: refused to deploy, felt the war was unjust.
1st Lt. Ehren Watada : refused to deploy, felt the war was unjust
There is a long list of soldiers who took the same oath as you and I and their beliefs changed.
Check out the page linked here:
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/MIG/threats.asp
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The citizens of Ferguson need to understand that they are destroying themselves and should stop before any forward momentum can be gained there. The area has turned into a catch-22. The citizens started rioting and looting, so the police broke out the riot gear, so the citizens looted and rioted some more, so the police broke out more riot gear, endless cycle here, perpetuated by the civilians in their own home. I have been in situations like this albeit extremely toned down on military installations. Same mentality, which is one of entitlement that they are owed something. And because they believe they are owed something, the issue has long since gone beyond Mr. Brown and has gone onto "what have you done for me lately". What they do not see, is that by burning, looting, violating their neighbors they do not help the cause they are protesting. And they force the hand of their adversary. So what comes next? If the citizens continue to perpetuate the cycle what is the next course of action? Martial Law? Force will be met with force until the besieged get their heads out of their asses and maintain the peaceful, law abiding protests it should have been from the beginning, instead of LA riots part II the excuse for more free loot.
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Cpl (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) Usually the fall back statement from CF's like this is "That kind of thing does not happen here" Hence there would be no need to draw up plans and train for it. Especially if you have a small town with limited budget. However, if an LEO can afford to maintain the vehicles and gear they should have the ability to maintain their standards. IMHO.
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Cpl (Join to see)
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca The force not being representative of the population is unsettling, and certainly sets a powder keg in the room. However, I find that most LEA's have become very stringent with their requirements on who they are able to hire or more appropriate who is deemed hire-able based on requirements. I would say that background checks alone disqualify most people. If you look at the fact that not only is the applicant being checked but known associates as well are being checked. This would preclude a number of individuals from being eligible. It is unfortunate due to circumstance that the make up of a department will be unbalanced in this way. It comes back to many questions posed here on RP, do you lower standards to get your target demographic or maintain your standard and have the best test takers obtain the appointments.
All of this is moot with regards to the situation in Ferguson, as they are well beyond those philosophical questions at this point. As unfortunate as the situation is, and how it got to the point it is currently experiencing; I stand by my statement that things in Ferguson will not improve until the populace stops destroying itself. Due to the nature of their jobs, the LE's will need to continue escalating force as long as the resistance continues to escalate. It is its own vicious cycle.
On a brighter side, if the populace continue to loot, riot, commit arson, shoot people etc. soon there will be nothing left there to riot about except the issue. Then maybe tempers will cool and meaningful dialogue can be pursued.
All of this is moot with regards to the situation in Ferguson, as they are well beyond those philosophical questions at this point. As unfortunate as the situation is, and how it got to the point it is currently experiencing; I stand by my statement that things in Ferguson will not improve until the populace stops destroying itself. Due to the nature of their jobs, the LE's will need to continue escalating force as long as the resistance continues to escalate. It is its own vicious cycle.
On a brighter side, if the populace continue to loot, riot, commit arson, shoot people etc. soon there will be nothing left there to riot about except the issue. Then maybe tempers will cool and meaningful dialogue can be pursued.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Great points Cpl (Join to see). Hopefully we still maintain standards over racial balance. And Yes in regards to Ferguson, the population needs to walk away peacefully at this point to preserve their town. They have every right under the law to get answers to what happened but at this point they aren't going to have them immediately. They can't just string up this LEO and hand him over to the mob and call it justice - which is seemingly what they all want. All the evidence is sketchy at best - looks pretty damning but we don't know the LEO's side yet.
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Cpl (Join to see)
Exactly, my point. The mob wants their perception of justice, they are not looking for/waiting for factual/legal justice. It is a very emotionally charged environment, where I would have expected some civic leaders to step in and control the mob, which would alleviate the need for riot police. This is certainly a hurry up and wait scenario.
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