Posted on Oct 19, 2016
PFC Harry Leuchen
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Posted in these groups: 2608291d Socialism
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CPT Jack Durish
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Socialism defies common sense. It sounds appealing to intellectuals who are unencumbered by this valuable commodity. Service members, at least living ones, tend to have more common sense than most. After all, you're not going to survive long if you go in harms way without it.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Col Joseph Lenertz
8 y
Thanks, CPT Jack Durish ! We also tend to be students of History, which helps us avoid falling for socialism.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money [sic]" - M. Thatcher

Full Quote (5 February 1976):

(Llew Gardner for Thames Television's This Week) Q: There are those nasty critics, of course, who suggest that you don't really want to bring [the Labour Party] down at the moment. Life is a bit too difficult in the country, and that ... leave them to sort the mess out and then come in with the attack later ... say next year.

(Prime Minister Margeret Thatcher) A: I would much prefer to bring them down as soon as possible. I think they've made the biggest financial mess that any government's ever made in this country for a very long time, and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them. They then start to nationalise everything, and people just do not like more and more nationalisation, and they're now trying to control everything by other means. They're progressively reducing the choice available to ordinary people.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
8 y
CPT L S - We have companies move overseas when the taxrate jumps 1-2%. If it jumps to usury levels, it will stifle the economy, not help it.

Although the concept of "tax so they reinvest instead" makes logical sense, it only works if a company can't move that money to another locale with better taxes (like Ireland). On a Micro scale with see this in state to state commerce. CA is losing business to TX for high tax rates. On a Macro level, the US and Europe are losing it to places like Ireland.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
8 y
CPT L S - I'm not sure why you keep throwing around the 92% marginal tax rate under President Eisenhower. If you are trying to say he brought it about you are wrong. He inherited from 24 years of a combined FDR and Truman and a Democrat controlled legislature starting with the 81st Congress.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
8 y
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CPT L S - The illegal action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
8 y
CPT L S - I understand that in your opinion the GOP is responsible for all ills in society, including the extinction of the dinosaurs, plaid, argyle sweaters and socks, and pickled beets. But are you really completely incapable of focusing on one discussion at a time? Still waiting for the Merton and Day references, or biblical proof that Jesus was a socialist and government mandated charity.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Too Many Here don't Understand that all forms of Government are "Socialist" it is just a matter of what Kind of Socialism you accept, Which Social Group Benefits from that form of "Socialism" From the Far Right Wing Socialism of the Nazi Party to the Far Left of the Communist Party to the Moderate Social Democrats of Most of Northern Europe. "The Opposite of Socialism is not Capitalism, The Opposite of Socialism is Anarchy, No Government."
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
8 y
CPT L S - CPT L S - I would first laugh, and then respectfully disagree with your assertion that Pres Carter's Recession was worse than the 2008 recessive debacle. I don't know if you were born yet, or if you remember how things were, but here's a few examples.
* Under Pres Carter, Mortgage interest rates topped out at over 18%. Perhaps you will argue this was a good thing for the American people because it kept them from getting into debt.... or because the poor in America got higher returns on their stock market investments. (joking) Here's what I remember about this time. I remember there were few people who could move out of their homes because they couldn't afford the new payment with a 16-18% interest rate on their 30 year mortgage. I remember the construction industry taking a dump... nobody was building new homes, or even commercial buildings due to the interest costs. On a more personal note, I remember my father, a mason, having to travel to Canada for work, and that he would actually sleep in the large buildings he was working on, and come home on weekends, to provide for his family, I remember the whole family mobilizing nightly to clean banks to make ends meet.
* Under Pres Carter, Unemployment shot trended up to over 10% before it topped out... see above for some of the reasons, and some of the effects. I spent some of my HS years working for a landscaper/lawn maintenance company because there was no construction. When people started cutting back on these services, I was laid off, and I ended up joining the Army so as to not be a burden to my family.(turned out well for me). Perhaps you'll argue this was a good thing because it gave the poor, and the middle class a chance to relax, and recreate on their 23 weeks of meager unemployment checks. There were no Federal extensions back then.
* Under Pres Carter, Inflation topped out at nearly 14% by 1980. In case you're wondering, that means that while Unemployment was trending up to 10%, and while people couldn't even move because of mortgage interest rates approaching 18%, that prices were going UP! Add to this, failures in foreign policy that causes OPEC to embargo oil driving up prices, and causing NATIONAL GASOLINE RATIONING, and things were just peachy. I recall waiting in line for inflated, gasoline, and then only being able to buy 10 gallons at a time when most vehicles held 20 gallons, or more, and cars only got 10-15 mpg (average of 13.5 mpg) according to historical chart. By the way, we have market forces to thank for the end of that Embargo, and not some Keynesian fantasy. People buying cars with higher mpg, increased domestic production, ethanol editions began to signal decreasing demand for OPEC oil, so, unsurprisingly, one of these OPEC countries broke ranks (Saudi Arabia) and increased production, causing lower prices. I remember airline prices being higher then, than they are today in actual dollars, (not inflation adjusted), I remember not being able to go on long trips because of rationing, and shortages, and the ability to only go 100-150 miles before having to "fill up" on another 10 gallons of gas. I remember heating our house with a new wood stove because #2 heating oil became so expensive, and hard to get.

There is little doubt the Carter recession was far more painful than the 2008 recession. The saving grace was that we came out of the Carter recession rather quickly, and not by subsidizing the problem, which both the Great Depression, AND the 2008 recession show, only prolongs the recession, and the misery associated with it. And there's no doubt that all these recessions harm the poor, and the middle class. The rich, with only a few exceptions are easily able to whether such storms, and many did quite well by buying bonds when interest rates were high. (bond values go UP when interest rates come down.) Your uninformed?, misinformed?, disinformed? (I don't know which) characterization of the 1970's recession is lacking in facts.

The 2008 recession, on the other hand is marked by HUGE "stimulus" that failed to stimulate, laughingly, admitted to by Pres Obama ("those shovel-ready jobs weren't so shovel-ready"... remember that one?), Huge Bail-outs of multi billion dollar auto, and finance, and investment companies. Huge subsidies, of mismanaged, union pension, and retiree healthcare funds. Huge investments for billionaires, and "green energy" companies that in a great many cases ended up failing, and/or moving overseas. Solyndra, and A123 Battery come to mind in this regard. Artificially low interest rates, uncontrolled printing of money ("quantitative easing") both of which, have done little to actually grow our economy, or to motivate the chronically, unemployed, and "under-employed" back to work en-masse, and which will, at some point come home to roost, in a very negative way, economically speaking... unless you wish to suggest that such gross interventions can occur absent ANY effects.

As always, Respectful regards, and thank you for the ammunition.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
8 y
CPT L S - There never was a $600 hammer. As this article explains..... http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/12/the-myth-of-the-600-hammer/5271/

And as this next page explains there can be reasons to pay a lot for a titanium screw that is produced by special order in a small lot, and that the "coffee pot" wasn't a pot at all, but rather a post-design, coffee station galley insert for the C-5A Galaxy.
https://books.google.com/books?id=XldKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT211&lpg=PT211&dq=is+the+military+still+buying+$600+wrenches&source=bl&ots=_eTy0FKQL1&sig=wdMkEoz9wSEJjB-p6eteTwD2GoM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihwqjulIXQAhXBx4MKHcuOA1sQ6AEIXjAJ

And if you think Pres Obama's government isn't wasting our money, this article highlights just a few..... http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/12/22/7-Unbelievable-Ways-Government-Wasted-Your-Money-2015
To include $1.3 million to research how a beer Koozy keeps a beer cool on a warm day. $2 million to develop jazz playing robots, Or how about the government spending $2 million PER TRAINEE, only to have 95 of the 145 fighters defect to the Syrians. ....."the government had vetted, trained and equipped only 145 fighters, including just 95 who had returned to Syria to fight. That worked out to cost of roughly $2 million per trainee."

My point here is not to nit pick, but instead to point out that government is wasteful, and you will be left wanting if you try to argue that one administration is less wasteful than the next. Waste, inefficiency, and generalized (not individual) incompetence are the hallmarks of big government, whether the President has a D, or a R to identify them, they're all RepubliCrats, and largely engage in the same failed policies with only minor differences. Regards.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
8 y
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel - indeed it, makes one wonder why Reagan's democrat Congress would write such omission (retiree raises) as that into their budget. And shame on Reagan for signing it. It was also a disgraceful democrat plan to take from Social Security. Compassion and fiscal responsibility on display.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
8 y
CPT L S - I wouldn't do any good. The special interests are too entrenched with the politicians for life in DC. And though I commend Gore for his market based solutions, such as allowing local purchase for such things as office, and cleaning supplies, there was still no lack of wasteful spending in the Federal government.
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