Posted on Jul 10, 2016
Would the world have been better off if the allies joined with Nazi Germany to defeat the Soviet Union?
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No, I'm not a Nazi; Yes, I know Hitler was an evil SOB and Nazis suck. That said, Stalin was responsible for more Soviet deaths than Hitler. The Cold War saw continued casualties in Korea & Vietnam as well as those imprisoned, tortured and executed by the Soviet Union & it's satellites. So before you send the hate remember Pinochet, Noriega, Saddam and other dictators the US has befriended.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 16
I think Patton and his army would have been destroyed. The Russians had way more forces than we had after winning the Battle of Kursk, making their own and getting tanks from the USA and Canada. Their forces were way bigger than our and they probably had 3 times the forces the Allies had not to mention a big air force made up of many of our own planes including Air Cobras. Russia had a total of about 2.5 million men and women in Germany at the time of the German Surrender.
The war would have continued for at least two years and the Russians would have gotten the A-bomb from the Rosenbergs and we may have had nuclear war by the USA dropping copies of the little boy and fat man and the Russians eventually would have had their stolen prototypes to use against the West. China would probably have gone Communist because Secretary of State George C. Marshall did not like Chang Kai Shek so his US-trained forces did not get resupplied after the Communists would against resume the civil war.
China was left out to dry and Russia resupplied the Communists with captured Japanese arms, artillery and ammunition. I read the later in this book. Russia and China would have then been united against the West.
The Korean War may have happened and the Vietnam War would have started sooner and we would have been involved maybe sooner than 1955.
The war would have continued for at least two years and the Russians would have gotten the A-bomb from the Rosenbergs and we may have had nuclear war by the USA dropping copies of the little boy and fat man and the Russians eventually would have had their stolen prototypes to use against the West. China would probably have gone Communist because Secretary of State George C. Marshall did not like Chang Kai Shek so his US-trained forces did not get resupplied after the Communists would against resume the civil war.
China was left out to dry and Russia resupplied the Communists with captured Japanese arms, artillery and ammunition. I read the later in this book. Russia and China would have then been united against the West.
The Korean War may have happened and the Vietnam War would have started sooner and we would have been involved maybe sooner than 1955.
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SGT (Join to see)
Don't forget about history showing fighting in Russia in the winter usually doesn't end too well for the invading forces. Not to mention that the amount of conscripts the Russians could've brought to bear against the Allies. Would've been horrible all around before it even got to nuclear warfare.
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SPC Jared Brown
If America sides with Germany for whatever reason, then it stands to reason that we also become friends with all of the Axis powers. So Japan is now our WW2 BFF, so now Japan continues to receive oil and steel from America which means Australia falls and probably more of China. China at this point is a non-factor in world politics. So now Japan with America attack Russia from the east. Russia now has the two front war
In Africa, Montgomery fights in Africa alone against the Desert Fox, who now has Patton on his side. Africa remains with Germany, meaning Italy doesn't fall in '43.
At this point Germany is losing in Russia, but now through turkey American tanks come into the fray. So now Russia is fighting on two fronts, and the Japanese/ American forces from the east probably come completely unhindered, the ultimate pincer move by Axis Powers. In the end I say Axis win, if America turns a blind eye to the atrocities Germany committed. However, the war would've lasted another 3-4 years, or until Stalins death.
In Africa, Montgomery fights in Africa alone against the Desert Fox, who now has Patton on his side. Africa remains with Germany, meaning Italy doesn't fall in '43.
At this point Germany is losing in Russia, but now through turkey American tanks come into the fray. So now Russia is fighting on two fronts, and the Japanese/ American forces from the east probably come completely unhindered, the ultimate pincer move by Axis Powers. In the end I say Axis win, if America turns a blind eye to the atrocities Germany committed. However, the war would've lasted another 3-4 years, or until Stalins death.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
SPC Jared Brown - The Russians weren't that good. Its lucky for them the war ended when it did.
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Hold On, Reread the question. I think we are looking at the basic premise all wrong. I interpret the question as meaning that we would have allied with Germany BEFORE the 8th Air Force and British Bomber Command bombed them into the 19th Century. Basically "Should we have accepted Rudolph Hess' offer to conclude a separate peace between the Western Allies and Germany. Whether or not we joined in the fight against the USSR was not Hess' main objective, but to end the war in the west was. I have been a student of World War II for about 45 years (Since I was in the 1st or 2d grade and could read well enough to get books out of the library) There are some major facts that need to be factored in to this equation.
-- You all realize that in late 41, Germany had still not been defeated and had Hess's mission been complete the Army that Germany sent into Russia would ave been twice the size or more.
-- It took the three largest nations/Empire to FIVE years to defeat the Germans. The United States did not have to deal with bombings disrupting production, the British Empire included troops from, but not limited to Australia, Canada, India, South Africa, New Zealand, Scotland, Ireland, and Rhodesia. The Soviet Union had conquered the Baltic States and the Ukraine prior to the German Invasion. I have omitted the French from this because they got their asses handed to them in less than 60 days, and we all know that going to war without the French is like going duck hunting without an accordion. The allies also had troops in exile from Poland, The Netherlands, Belgium and Czechoslovakia ...so To say that beating Germany would have been easy is forgetting the simple lessons of history.
-- Had the Western Allies accepted Hess' offer and even just did not help the USSR , not invading them, the Russians would not have had the food, fuel and material that was supplied by the Western Allies. They would not have had the equipment needed to hold off the Germany victory.
-- The Germans were welcomed as Liberators in Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. I doubt that those countries would have supported the USSR had German victory seemed closer.
-- The War Started September 1st 1939, when Poland was invaded from the West by Germany and simultaniously from the East by the Soviet Union.
-- The USSR was an ally of Germany until the invasion of the USSR by Germany 22 June 1941, almost 2 years after the war started. In fact the Germans and Russians were in negotiations prior to Operation Barbarossa to become allies themselves, with the Soviets placing the condition that the Germans NOT interfere with affairs in "the Soviet Sphere of Influence" which would have ended the dream of "Lebensraum" in the east. Negotiations between the USSR and Germany did not conclude until January 1941.
-- Initially, the Holocaust and actions against the Jews were the result of the perception that most Jews were also Communist. This came as a result of the two failed Communist Revolutions in Germany during the Weimar Republic and the fact that those revolutions ad been headed by the Sparticusbund, led by Karl Leibnicht and Rosa Luxemburg. Upon investigation it was determined that most of the leaders of the Communists revolutions both in Berlin and Munchen were Jewish. If you look, the Nazis tried to deport the Jews, as had England, France and Spain (along with others) at different times in their histories. Death camps did not begin until after the Wanasee Conference. Forced Immigration, mainly to Palestine, did not end until after the Western Allies declared war on Germany.
-- Stalin was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Poland after September '39, and in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the Ukraine, not to mention over 20 million Russians.
-- Communism has been responsible directly or indirectly for every war since the Russian Revolution.
-- Had the USSR been defeated, China likely would not have gone Communist, thus saving the lives of nearly 200 million killed in purges since 1949.
-- The Cold War, Korea, the South American brush wars, Vietnam, the Chinese revolution, the war against Burma--I could go on all night-- Would never had happened.
Do the math, we have been inundated by the Media how bad the Germans were, but the Western Allies slept with Satan himself in order to stop one demon.
I would have preferred to see the United states NOT ENTER World War I (Where we had no business) or to have entered on the Side of Germany--Which almost happened--so that a German victory in World War I would have ensured that World War II would NEVER have occurred and Hitler would ave remained an obscure, out of work postcard painter.
-- You all realize that in late 41, Germany had still not been defeated and had Hess's mission been complete the Army that Germany sent into Russia would ave been twice the size or more.
-- It took the three largest nations/Empire to FIVE years to defeat the Germans. The United States did not have to deal with bombings disrupting production, the British Empire included troops from, but not limited to Australia, Canada, India, South Africa, New Zealand, Scotland, Ireland, and Rhodesia. The Soviet Union had conquered the Baltic States and the Ukraine prior to the German Invasion. I have omitted the French from this because they got their asses handed to them in less than 60 days, and we all know that going to war without the French is like going duck hunting without an accordion. The allies also had troops in exile from Poland, The Netherlands, Belgium and Czechoslovakia ...so To say that beating Germany would have been easy is forgetting the simple lessons of history.
-- Had the Western Allies accepted Hess' offer and even just did not help the USSR , not invading them, the Russians would not have had the food, fuel and material that was supplied by the Western Allies. They would not have had the equipment needed to hold off the Germany victory.
-- The Germans were welcomed as Liberators in Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. I doubt that those countries would have supported the USSR had German victory seemed closer.
-- The War Started September 1st 1939, when Poland was invaded from the West by Germany and simultaniously from the East by the Soviet Union.
-- The USSR was an ally of Germany until the invasion of the USSR by Germany 22 June 1941, almost 2 years after the war started. In fact the Germans and Russians were in negotiations prior to Operation Barbarossa to become allies themselves, with the Soviets placing the condition that the Germans NOT interfere with affairs in "the Soviet Sphere of Influence" which would have ended the dream of "Lebensraum" in the east. Negotiations between the USSR and Germany did not conclude until January 1941.
-- Initially, the Holocaust and actions against the Jews were the result of the perception that most Jews were also Communist. This came as a result of the two failed Communist Revolutions in Germany during the Weimar Republic and the fact that those revolutions ad been headed by the Sparticusbund, led by Karl Leibnicht and Rosa Luxemburg. Upon investigation it was determined that most of the leaders of the Communists revolutions both in Berlin and Munchen were Jewish. If you look, the Nazis tried to deport the Jews, as had England, France and Spain (along with others) at different times in their histories. Death camps did not begin until after the Wanasee Conference. Forced Immigration, mainly to Palestine, did not end until after the Western Allies declared war on Germany.
-- Stalin was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Poland after September '39, and in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and the Ukraine, not to mention over 20 million Russians.
-- Communism has been responsible directly or indirectly for every war since the Russian Revolution.
-- Had the USSR been defeated, China likely would not have gone Communist, thus saving the lives of nearly 200 million killed in purges since 1949.
-- The Cold War, Korea, the South American brush wars, Vietnam, the Chinese revolution, the war against Burma--I could go on all night-- Would never had happened.
Do the math, we have been inundated by the Media how bad the Germans were, but the Western Allies slept with Satan himself in order to stop one demon.
I would have preferred to see the United states NOT ENTER World War I (Where we had no business) or to have entered on the Side of Germany--Which almost happened--so that a German victory in World War I would have ensured that World War II would NEVER have occurred and Hitler would ave remained an obscure, out of work postcard painter.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
GySgt John Olson - I under stand that, and Gunny, I did not say one way or the other, but given the parameters of the original question those were facts that needed to come out and be considered.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Cpl Kenneth Darby - Corporal, yes they were welcomed as liberators and that feeling stayed, until the SD came in and began the executions. I just left the information here so some can see it. I am with the Gunny, the politics would not have worked, but that is a discussion for a different time and place.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
GySgt John Olson - Very much split, but by agreement, the war in Europe took priority.
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I think at the time we were entering the war, Nazi Germany was a much bigger threat. If the timing had been different, say ten years in the future after the Soviet Union had reared its ugly head a little more, it could've ended up differently.
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