Posted on Jul 3, 2016
Why do units insist that a SM wear the unit patch as the combat patch while deployed with that unit? I resist this.
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Combat
Combat Patch (SSI-FWTS)
Deployment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 51
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Esprit de Corps. I have heard this one before. I found it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on. Oddly more common the closer one gets to the flagpole..
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SSG Don Maggart
There were many Dead Holding up the Flagpole for Francis Scott Key to See the Star Spangled Banner Yet Wave they were piled up at the Bottom of the Pole....
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SFC (Join to see)
Yup, saw that before. Command egos seeking uniformity on one of the uniform item that uniform items that is the discretion of the individual.
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SSG Don Maggart
Exactly @ SFC (Join to see) Conformity a leftover Dinosaur of the Napolenic Wars.....
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SFC (Join to see)
Conformity has its place within the military, but there are instances in the regulations that leave it up to the actual Soldier as to what they want to wear. Played that game a long time ago at a TRADOC post in the months between Panama and Desert Shield where I was told to remove my right shoulder sleeve patch because I was in a student status. It took a CSM to unscrew a few heads over that order.
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I was approached in Theater by a SGM from the 10th mountain division. He wanted to know why I as a SSG was not following the guidance put out, all were to wear the 10th patch. I let him know that I had 28 total months with the unit I was wearing. And lost 6 friends in that unit. As soon as the 10th CAB exceeded that I would continue wearing my patch. Granted I used more tact.
I know the reg so why are SGM making police where the reg is clear it is the SM choice
I know the reg so why are SGM making police where the reg is clear it is the SM choice
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MAJ Seth Goldstein
I’m not sure which part about what I said is, “sour grapes.” Perhaps you have not been forward deployed but if your first, second, and third priority is not mission you are not ready for the major leagues. The major issues with E-9’s is first they spend most of their career at the company level and when promoted to E-9 most think they are the HHD SGM/CSM and not the BN and BDE SGM/CSM. Even the Bliss SGM at the SGM academy admitted the rank is not necessary. Secondly, for the most part with the exception of combat arms most E-9’s excelled in garrison, school, and look like soldiers in the uniform. This with the exception of a MP BDE CSM I recently read about.
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SGM (Join to see)
MAJ Seth Goldstein - "Even the Bliss SGM at the SGM academy admitted the rank is not necessary." Can you provide a credible source of this info? The only source I can find other than your personal opinion and broad brushed assessment is the link below from Duffel Blog.
While I'll agree there some highly stupid policies (PT belts in theater amongst other equally senseless examples) on the books, you do realize who makes those policies right? Enlisted Soldiers of any rank do not make policy. Commanders make policy, and NCOs are responsible to ensure they are followed. We don't have to agree with the policy, just enforce the standards, and correct those that do not feel that they need to adhere to them.
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/04/sergeant-major-academy/
While I'll agree there some highly stupid policies (PT belts in theater amongst other equally senseless examples) on the books, you do realize who makes those policies right? Enlisted Soldiers of any rank do not make policy. Commanders make policy, and NCOs are responsible to ensure they are followed. We don't have to agree with the policy, just enforce the standards, and correct those that do not feel that they need to adhere to them.
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/04/sergeant-major-academy/
Sergeants Major Academy Spokesman Admits E-9s 'Pretty Much Worthless’
FORT BLISS, Texas — Sergeants Major across the Army have reacted with stunned outrage after candid comments from a spokesman for the Sergeants Major Academy were included in a recent story in the Army Times newspaper. Command Sgt. Maj. Rory Malloy, current commandant of the Sergeants Major Academy system of professional NCO education, admitted during […]
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MAJ Seth Goldstein
I could have sworn there was also an article in Military.com. I'm sure there are plenty of fine SGM in the Army, I just only have come across two or three of them. Before retiring, I was asked to write a LOM award for a retiring SGM who’s end of tour award for Desert Storm was an AAM. Another great example of a schoolhouse soldier. Yes, that was the highlight of his career. The unit before that I was in a GSU and the SGM was previously an 11B guy never quite grasped his role or the needs of the soldiers.
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SGM (Join to see)
MAJ Seth Goldstein So we don't further derail this thread about the merits of perception and bias of people, let's agree that this discussion has no place in the thread. If you'd like we can discuss this further using the RP message system.
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Don't forget that AR 670-1 is no longer the full story- it directs you to now the supplement DA Pam 670-1 to tell you how to wear the patch. Paragraph 21-17 specifically says soldiers authorized more than one have the option of choosing which to wear, or electing not to wear. On top of that, don't buy fully into the "local guidance can be more restrictive than the regs." The rule is the rule, and the role of local commanders policy is intended to implement the regs and fill in the gray areas. Here it says the soldiers can choose their own patch in black and white. I don't know what commander presumes to say he is going to take away your choice that is specifically authorized in the regs, but they don't have that power.
All that said, sometimes it's a matter of picking your battles...
All that said, sometimes it's a matter of picking your battles...
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LTC Robert McKenna
"local guidance can be more restrictive than the regs" or the more popular "you can add to but not take away from" are bureaucratic cop outs as neither is an end around to violate the intention of a regulation or policy.
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LTC (Join to see)
Exactly sir. It's unfortunate how that rumored "more restrictive" BS is so pervasive. Interesting that it mostly doesn't come from those who write the policies, but from those who don't understand and still try to enforce them. I'm sure some of it's part of the creeping culture of attempting to control every aspect of Soldiers' lives, where any modicum of free will is seen as disruptive to order and discipline. Sigh.
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SSG Don Maggart
Amen LTC (Join to see) about time they changed and codified the Reg's my Dad a 2 Year Korean Vet a 4 Tour Vietnam Vet 3 as LRRP's then Training ROTC Cadets at NMMI had many choices both "Legal" and Bootleg Patches....
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SSG(P) D. Wright Downs
The women’s uniforms were changing, what seemed like weekly, in the early 80’s. I kept up the changes by message and illustrations that I distributed to the post units through garrison. The 670-1 was being re-written and taking forever. It was finally finished.
I arrived in Germany form CONUS wearing class A and solid black boots to my knee. I had left port in NY in a blizzard, my plane had been delayed 6 hours. My receiving 1SGT questioned the boots. I showed him page and paragraph where they were authorized in the 670-1.
It is up to the NCO to know the regs to keep those above and below apprised of them. Teach, teach, teach. That is the job of the NCO. If it is a patch or a change in the reg, find the answer and make it known.
I arrived in Germany form CONUS wearing class A and solid black boots to my knee. I had left port in NY in a blizzard, my plane had been delayed 6 hours. My receiving 1SGT questioned the boots. I showed him page and paragraph where they were authorized in the 670-1.
It is up to the NCO to know the regs to keep those above and below apprised of them. Teach, teach, teach. That is the job of the NCO. If it is a patch or a change in the reg, find the answer and make it known.
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