Posted on Jul 1, 2016
Should the USN patrol boat crews have defended themselves/boats against the Iranians?
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Responses: 27
Not putting up a fight was probably the smartest thing they did in this situation.
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SPC Kirk Gilles
Out classed but would they be out commanded? If the Iranians are bolder and know a US commander has no policy or fortitude then what? If our policy is to surrender then size of ship would not matter would it?
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CPO Eugene Gillam
Not putting up a fight u might be able to agree with IF they knew they were in Iranian waters - and that is still unclear to me. BUT giving any information other than name, rank and serial number is beyond comprehension. Are our military not taught anything in boot camp nowadays? I'm disgusted and confused by their apparent cowardice.
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CPO George Mac
CPT Joseph K Murdock - CPT Murdock, THERE WAS NO MISSION!!! Their OIC decided to take these boats out of training...They had no idea what they were doing and got lost!!! LOST!!! They should never have been underway in the first place UNTILL they were ALL qualified to do so. A CSAR was launched by MUTILNATIONAL Navies for crying out loud!! There were out of touch for a very long time before they thought maybe, hey that island...does that match something on the map? Just a bunch of poor sailors' being mislead by a non qualified SWO type that was way out over his head !!! Talk about a total lack of adult leadership!!!!!!
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The boat was disabled. They'd drifted into Iranian waters. Submission was the correct move...but...the subsequent violations of the Code Of Conduct can not be excused. They were not tortured, they weren't under great duress. The Navy now has to punish all but one for conduct unbecoming.
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CDR (Join to see)
CSM Durr,
I disagree regarding submission. The entire sortie was a goat rope to that point, but the CRB with the failed engine could still make 10-12 kts on the one remaining engine. According to the report, they should not have stopped to make repairs until they were beyond 12-miles from the unknown island (which was, of course Farsi). The first two boats to approach were small "boston whaler" type launches. The CRBs definitely outgunned those boats. Should they have opened fire? No, of course not. However, as the IRGCN boats approached with their crew-served weapons trained on the CRBs, the USN crews could have readied their weapons to signal that they were not an easy mark. The CRBs gave no signal they would resist in any way and their apparent weakness served to embolden the IRGCN. The CRBs were within international law to transit through the Iranian national waters around Farsi Island, under right of innocent passage. As the report states, they showed a lack of "warfighting toughness."
I agree with your recommendation regarding violations of the Code of Conduct. Inexcusable.
R,
I disagree regarding submission. The entire sortie was a goat rope to that point, but the CRB with the failed engine could still make 10-12 kts on the one remaining engine. According to the report, they should not have stopped to make repairs until they were beyond 12-miles from the unknown island (which was, of course Farsi). The first two boats to approach were small "boston whaler" type launches. The CRBs definitely outgunned those boats. Should they have opened fire? No, of course not. However, as the IRGCN boats approached with their crew-served weapons trained on the CRBs, the USN crews could have readied their weapons to signal that they were not an easy mark. The CRBs gave no signal they would resist in any way and their apparent weakness served to embolden the IRGCN. The CRBs were within international law to transit through the Iranian national waters around Farsi Island, under right of innocent passage. As the report states, they showed a lack of "warfighting toughness."
I agree with your recommendation regarding violations of the Code of Conduct. Inexcusable.
R,
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Did Custer surrender when he was surrounded by Native Americans? Have there never been a command surrendered when annihilation is probable. AS a MCPO, I'm glad I was never in a position to find that out. This makes it apparent to me that if you get into trouble, on the Iranian coast or Benghazi, no one has your back in this day and age. With all the satellites and radar, and comms, are you telling me that they weren't covered like a blanket?
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MCPO Roger Collins
SGT Jerrold Pesz - I wish I had the patience to read and digest a huge report. When you have a situation such as this, it is systemic. Which normally indicates a leadership problem up to a minimum of Squadron level in the Navy. Bird COL. In the Army.
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CPO Zack Lindsey
Hey master chief I'm with dam the torpideos ( spelling ) and I have not yet begun to fight and how does both boats break down at the same time, I'm sorry to say I think I may have got in a lot more trouble cause cause I would not have just rolled over like that or put it this way, there would have been a lot of voiceing my opinion non stop!
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MCPO Roger Collins
CPO Zack Lindsey - There are many questions that go unanswered. A naval warship is a totally different from a small boat or two, one of which was disabled. Surrounded by the enemy, in their territorial waters. If our policy was suicide rather than surrender, I would see your point. But there were thousands of POWs in past wars that may disagree.
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