Posted on Jun 29, 2016
How do Senior Leaders condone LBGT events such as Pride month? What happened to good order and discipline?
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Senior Leaders
Discipline
Senior Leaders Discipline
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 33
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If you are asking why condone LBGT, you have missed the boat by a few years.
If you are asking how to enforce good order and discipline in the ranks when it comes to LBGT personnel then just ignore orientation (and now gender) and focus on performance and personal character.
If you are asking how to enforce good order and discipline in the ranks when it comes to LBGT personnel then just ignore orientation (and now gender) and focus on performance and personal character.
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SGT Damaso V Santana
CPT Pedro Meza - I stand corrected, however I am quite aware of St Pat's, (Grew up in NYC) just didn't tie it in to Patrick.
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SGT Damaso V Santana
CPT Pedro Meza - You mean to tell me that had it not being because of good ol' Max we would be whistling Dixie?
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CPT Pedro Meza
SGT Damaso V Santana - St Patrick festivities were designed to celebrate a marginalized group, remember that Irish are Catholics and they were exposed to hate by the protestants here in the US, this is why the Patricios (St Patrick Battalion) switched sides during the Mexican American war, in Mexico the Patricios are honored.
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CPT John Sheridan
MAJ (Join to see) your succinct response cuts right to the heart of the matter. Excellent!
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In all seriousness, DoD recognition of Pride Month is a matter of good order & discipline. With a long history of institutional prohibitions against LGBT people and a long history of societal attitudes detrimental to them, the military is faced with a problem to solve. Societal attitudes have rapidly changed and the military has to adapt to those changes.
It's not that long ago that gays in the military were considered roughly equivalent to IV drug users due to AIDS. Worse yet, if an IV drug user self identified, they were provided counseling and treatment. A gay soldier was simply fired without consideration of his performance.
Most of the senior leadership of the Army were in leadership roles during those times and participated in enforcing legal sanctions against LGBT soldiers. General attitudes toward LGBT soldiers ranged from benign contempt to violent. The law now prohibits that. For that reason, the leadership must openly endorse these changes and accept LGBT soldiers. If they cannot, they should retire.
So, it is a matter of good order and discipline that the senior leadership condone it. That is what leadership is. Anyone who cannot, without reservation, treat all of their soldiers professionally and with respect have no business leading soldiers.
It's not that long ago that gays in the military were considered roughly equivalent to IV drug users due to AIDS. Worse yet, if an IV drug user self identified, they were provided counseling and treatment. A gay soldier was simply fired without consideration of his performance.
Most of the senior leadership of the Army were in leadership roles during those times and participated in enforcing legal sanctions against LGBT soldiers. General attitudes toward LGBT soldiers ranged from benign contempt to violent. The law now prohibits that. For that reason, the leadership must openly endorse these changes and accept LGBT soldiers. If they cannot, they should retire.
So, it is a matter of good order and discipline that the senior leadership condone it. That is what leadership is. Anyone who cannot, without reservation, treat all of their soldiers professionally and with respect have no business leading soldiers.
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(Join to see)
On the flip side, anyone who cannot, without reservation, obey the legitimate commands of their senior officer(s) or follow the rules and regulations of their chosen military discipline have no business being in the military.
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Society has changed and the military is a reflection of the society in which it serves. With the repeal of DADT and the SCOTUS decision, this is no longer against the rules. So how exactly does this affect good order and discipline?
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SGT David T.
1LT(P) (Join to see) - The two are not related to each other. This is no different then when the Army racial integrated or when they gender integrated. It always follows the same pattern. Doom and gloom predictions, implementation, then eventually it becomes normal.
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CPT John Sheridan
1LT(P) (Join to see) - Well then, we cannot champion religious freedom. That will only lead to Satanism and the worship of Norse Gods. The "slippery slope" argument is a basic fallacy built on irrational associations.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
1LT(P) (Join to see) - I think that my be a flawed arguement. Have LGBTQ in the Miltary resulting in more SHARP issues, is like saying a women dressed inappropriately is asking to be assaulted.
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CPT Pedro Meza
The services have always had these different individuals in service and what has happens is that leaderships as supported by the courts finally recognize all that serve.
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