Posted on Jun 19, 2016
Capt Brandon Charters
31.2K
402
257
22
22
0
A9e0f3e
After reading this Military Times article, I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on how this lateral entry program of placing civilian professionals into military leadership roles can be successfully implemented. The biggest issue I see, will be figuring out how to culturally integrate these civilian transfers into the units they will be serving in. The level of respect an O-6 or NCO earns over a career is a very hard thing to put down on paper and measure in the civilian world. What would it take to make this program succeed?
http://militari.ly/24YKrHF
Avatar feed
Responses: 108
CPT Jack Durish
32
32
0
It sounds to me like this plan was devised by a civilian, someone who hasn't any knowledge of the military culture nor its peculiar problems. Sure, a civilian may have great experience and success leading a complex organization, but when have they ever been responsible for caring for every need of those they lead including clothing, feeding, housing, medical care (not just a health insurance plan), entertaining, delivering their mail, etc, etc, etc.? When have they ever moved an organization half way around the world at a moment's notice and been shot at when they arrived? Go ahead. Hire a civilian and put them in senior management. Can I watch?
(32)
Comment
(0)
LTC Stephen C.
LTC Stephen C.
>1 y
CPT Jack Durish hit the nail on the head, Capt Brandon Charters!
(4)
Reply
(0)
SGM David W. Carr  LOM, DMSM  MP SGT
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT
>1 y
CPT Jack Durish - It worked very well during WWII, when they created the Seabees identified by a CB insignia on the uniform sleeve. They were organized like the Marine Corps under the Department of the Navy. My 92 years young not qualified for the Navy color blind father was a proud member of the 77th CB in the South Pacific. They used Army Engineers and experienced construction workers from site managers, Heavy equipment operators, longshoremen, saw mill operations, pipe fitters/welders
(6)
Reply
(0)
CPT Jack Durish
CPT Jack Durish
>1 y
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT - Well, you're talking about construction workers. Give a construction worker a gun and get the hell out of their way. That's what I'd do. The only other success story I ever heard of related to a civilian who was recruited as a general, General Sarnoff. But his is a very unusual story... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sarnoff
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGM David W. Carr  LOM, DMSM  MP SGT
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT
>1 y
SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT - When I was stationed at West Point as n MP in the late 70s the elite WP Army Band members shared the same dining facility. At the time they did not fall under the normal promotion system and none were below the rank of SSG mostly senior NCOs. Many had spent their entire career there
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
MAJ Staff Officer
28
28
0
Why make them green suits? Why not hire them as GS employees or contractors? Do we really need to salute the newly hired IT expert or worry about the neurosurgeon's PT score?
(28)
Comment
(0)
SSG Program Control Manager
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno - In my opinion, the current civilian pay scale is heavily inflated. I understand that it is necessary to a certain point in order to compete with equivalent positions in the civilian world, however giving an engineer fresh out of college a GS-13 position, or putting GS-13 equivalent on the contractor ID card for someone who is really doing the job of a SFC or at best a CW2 is going to cause problems.
There also doesn't seem to be adequate training for contractors & civilians who don't have a military background on military courtesy or the level of responsibility an Infantry Squad leader has in the field.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CPT Pedro Meza
CPT Pedro Meza
>1 y
SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno - Jeff, you think I am crazy and going to tell you who called the shots "Snitches get Stitches"
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno
SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) - I agree. I understand there'll always be civilian tech reps and such, some GSA and some subcontracted, but you need a core which is accountable to the chain of command. As a civilian, I worked as a truck driver and equipment operator for a while (and even went back to the sandbox as a contract truck driver, and that experience did a lot to shape my perception on the flaws of relying on contractors even further, but that's for another post), then I changed careers and became a diesel tech, so now I work on HD trucks and heavy equipment. Now, the old M35s, 800 series, etc. were very simple vehicles - mechanical engines and drivetrains, solid state electronics, etc. The current vehicles, not so much, and I think about repairs I do at my job which to me are so simple, and yet, they're the sort of things which always went to contractors. So lateral entry as an experience to get personnel with those skill sets in the ranks, who will work with the lower enlisted and reinforce those skill sets, would be a great idea, IMO.
CPT Pedro Meza No doubt. There's a reason I kept those questions to myself at the time.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SGT Morrison  (Mike) Hogwood
SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood
>1 y
let the military lead the military and civilians stay at their desks,when i was in and the Army Dining Facilities went civilian contract and that was mess as they under bid the job and of course uncle sugar has to dish out more money to keep the troops fed,and soon most GS jobs will be NAF jobs for a lot less pay and no retirement.let's keep the military commanded and run by military men and women.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Platoon Sergeant
15
15
0
After reading the article and seeing it's only for certain specialties I think that instead of giving them rank, they should just get paid extra. For example an E-4 $2,000 taxable monthly Salary but have an incentive of lets say an extra $2,000 non-taxable a month for there job specialty without de-grading the rank structure. there are other ways to compensate for specialty MOS without handing our rank others work for years to attain.
(15)
Comment
(0)
ENS Ansi Officer
ENS (Join to see)
>1 y
Now that sounds like a good idea.
(1)
Reply
(0)
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
>1 y
This probably works - though you'd have to cough up more than 2k even non taxable. If they have certain skill sets - they can year more than that easily. You need to be putting 90-120k on the table after taxes, and even that might not be enough - things like overall benefits, stock options, bonus payments, etc.
(2)
Reply
(0)
PO1 Tony Holland
PO1 Tony Holland
>1 y
Why should they get non-taxable bonuses, the regular military doesn't and neither do civilians in industry.
(1)
Reply
(0)
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
GySgt Carl Rumbolo
>1 y
PO1 Tony Holland - I think the point the commenter was making was trying to get compensation levels to a level that would obtain and retain that type of skill.

While in the civilian world you might not get tax exempt bonuses - there are methods to greatly reduce the tax burden - deferred income is one method - yes at a certain point you might have to pay the FICA and Medicare taxes, you can push the income tax out to a later date - typically when there will be a lower overall bite.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close