Posted on Jun 24, 2014
Should soldiers with temperary profiles, be added to the "Remedial PT" program?
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How do we ensure PT/HT and WT failures who seek profiles post PT failure, are not abusing the system?
Posted in these groups: 
PRT (Army)
APFT
PRT (Army) APFT
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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1SG, this is a perception question as much as it's a very valid question. Soldier fails the run event and then goes to sick call the next day and gets a 90 day profile for a knee issue. Then spends the next year bouncing between healthcare providers and physical therapy getting misdiagnosed a couple times as to what his problem is. The perception could be from one view that this Soldier is malingering but reality is the system has failed him and is making him look like a dirt bag.
So how do we ensure that they are not abusing the system. First we don't assume that they are. I've seen a number of outstanding NCOs forced out of the military because the stigma of what going to sick call and getting a profile is like. They continued to push themselves even after they were injured and permanently damaged themselves to the point that they could not continue to serve. That being said we also don't trust blindly in the system. Engage that Soldier, talk to them about the PA visits, ask them what they said (don't cross the HIPA line). Don't let the system jack over the Soldiers. PA sends a Soldier back to the unit with a sick call slip (not a profile form) that says no PT X 90 days, send the Soldier back to the hospital/clinic to get that fixed. The days of sick call slip profiles when away a long time ago. Engaged the Doctor or PA about the situation if you have questions. The person that did the diagnosis and profile recommendation should have put their name and phone number on the profile. You can't discuss things covered by HIPA but clarification questions are fine.
At the end the only way the Soldier is going to abuse the system is if you don't have a Leader engaging him through out the entire process.
So how do we ensure that they are not abusing the system. First we don't assume that they are. I've seen a number of outstanding NCOs forced out of the military because the stigma of what going to sick call and getting a profile is like. They continued to push themselves even after they were injured and permanently damaged themselves to the point that they could not continue to serve. That being said we also don't trust blindly in the system. Engage that Soldier, talk to them about the PA visits, ask them what they said (don't cross the HIPA line). Don't let the system jack over the Soldiers. PA sends a Soldier back to the unit with a sick call slip (not a profile form) that says no PT X 90 days, send the Soldier back to the hospital/clinic to get that fixed. The days of sick call slip profiles when away a long time ago. Engaged the Doctor or PA about the situation if you have questions. The person that did the diagnosis and profile recommendation should have put their name and phone number on the profile. You can't discuss things covered by HIPA but clarification questions are fine.
At the end the only way the Soldier is going to abuse the system is if you don't have a Leader engaging him through out the entire process.
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1SG (Join to see)
Good point SFC. Soldiers that are on profile should not be considered or perceived as "dirt bags, malingerers, etc.", but need to understand the standards must be maintained during the profile period. Depending on the circumstances of the diagnosis, this becomes a very challenging situation for leaders, but one that must be made in the good interest of the soldier, unit and the Army. What option do we as leaders have?
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SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
I don't understand what you mean by options 1SG. To me there really isn't an option in these situations. You only have the obstacles, and the goal. Where you stand in relation to these two items will determine the path you take. The obstacles being the PT or HT/WT failure and the profile. The goal being to become healthy and compliant with standards. If I have a Soldier break his ankle while doing the 2 mile run I can't expect him to start working on improving his run time until his ankle is healed. There is no option here. Heal the ankle, improve the run time. If I have a Soldier that gets a no run profile and is also over weight well I know that I can work on the over weight bit while he's on profile because I know there is more to losing weight than running the piss out of a Soldier. So I work on the over weight while he recovers.
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SFC Luis Austin
The profile system in the military is broken. Just prior to my retirement I underwent spinal surgery that rendered me non-deployable. Despite having been a 300pt score soldier for most of my career, I was labeled a malingerer by my 1SG and CDR. Changing the perception is key, but in reality what should happen is that the medical officer should have to directly communicate with someone in the chain, but there lies the problem, HIPPA regulations will not allow it. Furthermore, some illnesses and injuries are quite personal in nature. I found, while I was in, that trust is key. I was a MFNCO and whenever I encountered this problem, what worked was trust. Sit down with the soldier, understand the issue and LISTEN to the guidance given to him by his PMC Manager. With that guidance, and the soldier's input, any good MFNCO can come up with a set of guidelines to keep that soldier in shape until he is recovered without causing further injury. Unfortunately, most Senior NCO's (me included) like to see everyone doing the same thing at the same time, that mindset needs to change. Remedial PT has to be individualized to the individual. Not everyone has the same injury, or recovers the same. Last but not least, physical fitness is an individual responsibility. We need to stop thinking that we have to make them do it, if they don't pass their APFT, there is your chance to rid the Army from some dead weight. All we need to do is provide the opportunity and tools for that soldier to do the right thing, the rest is on individual effort.
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SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
Yea, I remember that situation. I hated how those two treated you because the SRC doc made you non-deployable.
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Well battle, we have to make sure that the Soldiers section leader/squad leader are doing their jobs!!! And making sure these Soldiers(not All Soldiers) are not abusing the system. i will agree with everyone on this subject.
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1SG (Join to see)
That is what I am asking SFC Brown, should it be Top that is in charge or the PSG. Because over all who get the butt chewing Top!
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1SG (Join to see)
Battles, you both make valid points, however, the question that remains is "what are the option as far as ensuring the Soldier maintains the standard IAW AR 600-9, with limitations?"
TOP, if you are fortunate enough to have MFNCO's in your unit, I would not assign them to the remedial program, but have them build and manage it. Our influence is key as well, as we are charged with ensuring our units maintain good order, discipline, motivation and an effective level of fitness.
TOP, if you are fortunate enough to have MFNCO's in your unit, I would not assign them to the remedial program, but have them build and manage it. Our influence is key as well, as we are charged with ensuring our units maintain good order, discipline, motivation and an effective level of fitness.
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The new FM 7-22 actually covers alternate exersises for different injuries the problem I seen outside of TRADOC is that most clinics do not know about it. In FT Jackson we had a local profile sheet with actual exersise routines authorized for certain injuries and we had a designated PT instructor for the profiles . So to respond to your question yes they should participate on recovery PT as long as the instructors knows the program and the medical personnel dictates the exersises.
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1SG (Join to see)
Interesting SFC, most providers do provide recovery exercises with profiles or at least offer guidance to help the recovery process.
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