Posted on Apr 13, 2016
How do I file for divorce in the military while stationed in Germany?
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To my military brothers and sisters,
I need some serious advice. I am currently stationed in Germany and am about to begin going through the process for a divorce. We have no children, no property, and no shared debts. She is a civilian and I am active duty. We were married in Maryland, however, I am a Tennessee resident. How do I go about finding out how to do this while stationed in Germany? Obviously I can't just fly to Maryland to start the process.
Any advice would be great. Thanks in advance.
I need some serious advice. I am currently stationed in Germany and am about to begin going through the process for a divorce. We have no children, no property, and no shared debts. She is a civilian and I am active duty. We were married in Maryland, however, I am a Tennessee resident. How do I go about finding out how to do this while stationed in Germany? Obviously I can't just fly to Maryland to start the process.
Any advice would be great. Thanks in advance.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
First thing is first and you both need to come to an agreement on who gets what. I will tell you from experience that you can always buy new stuff so if she wants it all, don't argue (trust me, it's not worth it).
If you both are in agreement about separating like adults the process is simple.
You can either divorce in your state, her state or the state you were married in. Do some research and figure out who is the cheapest and easiest.
Once you pick a state then contact a lawyer. A simple google search will lead in you the right direction. You do NOT need to pay for a consultation. If someone wants money to talk, move on. This is a simple divorce where the property has already been agreed upon and you both only need the paperwork. Do what I did, write a bunch in a simple BLUF format (Bottom Line Up Front) like you did here and I'm sure you will find someone easily. A simple POA for your attorney should allow you to conduct this without trouble.
Past that, it's just money.
Now, if she is here-no brainer you need to do an EROD and send her on her way with her property (that you both agreed upon).
If she isn't here, then it's slightly easier.
Then it's just a matter of the courts and the time you have to wait for processing.
Couple of helpful hints. "Getting divorced" and "divorced" is not the same. Perception is reality so if your seen "around town" doing questionable activities with someone else, I would expect you to end up "on the carpet" very soon. Do be "that guy" and either keep yourself "hidden" or just wait.
Also, I assume your currently listing her as a dependent (for taxes). Our tax law states that if your divorced at ANY time during the year, your considered single for the ENTIRE year (so you may owe taxes when it's all said and done). You can try to switch it now but unless your S1 is dialed in (mine wasn't) you may be able to save yourself.
If she's is the states AND your collecting BAH for her, ensure that ANY agreement for that money to be used other than paying her rent is in written form (consenting). For example, if your collecting BAH and you two want to use that money to pay for the divorce, get written consent from her stating so.
Lastly, inform your chain of command. It may sound dumb and trivial, but in the event stuff goes sour and your Commander gets a call, he/she will already be tracking your current course of action.
Sorry to hear about this and I wish you the best. Not to sound mean, but if you two think this is the way to go, then both of you need to place your feelings aside and think logistically through until its completion. When tempers flare it only prolongs the "misery" and can (usually does) get very expensive.
If you have any questions, let me know. Like I said, unfortunately I'm really good at this part.
If you both are in agreement about separating like adults the process is simple.
You can either divorce in your state, her state or the state you were married in. Do some research and figure out who is the cheapest and easiest.
Once you pick a state then contact a lawyer. A simple google search will lead in you the right direction. You do NOT need to pay for a consultation. If someone wants money to talk, move on. This is a simple divorce where the property has already been agreed upon and you both only need the paperwork. Do what I did, write a bunch in a simple BLUF format (Bottom Line Up Front) like you did here and I'm sure you will find someone easily. A simple POA for your attorney should allow you to conduct this without trouble.
Past that, it's just money.
Now, if she is here-no brainer you need to do an EROD and send her on her way with her property (that you both agreed upon).
If she isn't here, then it's slightly easier.
Then it's just a matter of the courts and the time you have to wait for processing.
Couple of helpful hints. "Getting divorced" and "divorced" is not the same. Perception is reality so if your seen "around town" doing questionable activities with someone else, I would expect you to end up "on the carpet" very soon. Do be "that guy" and either keep yourself "hidden" or just wait.
Also, I assume your currently listing her as a dependent (for taxes). Our tax law states that if your divorced at ANY time during the year, your considered single for the ENTIRE year (so you may owe taxes when it's all said and done). You can try to switch it now but unless your S1 is dialed in (mine wasn't) you may be able to save yourself.
If she's is the states AND your collecting BAH for her, ensure that ANY agreement for that money to be used other than paying her rent is in written form (consenting). For example, if your collecting BAH and you two want to use that money to pay for the divorce, get written consent from her stating so.
Lastly, inform your chain of command. It may sound dumb and trivial, but in the event stuff goes sour and your Commander gets a call, he/she will already be tracking your current course of action.
Sorry to hear about this and I wish you the best. Not to sound mean, but if you two think this is the way to go, then both of you need to place your feelings aside and think logistically through until its completion. When tempers flare it only prolongs the "misery" and can (usually does) get very expensive.
If you have any questions, let me know. Like I said, unfortunately I'm really good at this part.
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SFC David McMahon
SGT (Join to see) - Everyone has to be bad at a couple of things in life and picking a significant other just happens to be mine-ha ha ha ha
I assure you that was not my intention but it does provide some great comic relief
I assure you that was not my intention but it does provide some great comic relief
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC David McMahon - It was thoroughly amusing to read, as well as hitting some good high notes. I too got to experience the process of divorce at one point, and how wicked of a process it is. I wish I could have done it in an amicable way, but in some states if only one party wants a divorce the process becomes a long one.. and that is utter BS.
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MSG William Wold
Well not knowing how long the marriage has been, and your years of service, hopefully short; not to sound crude, but long term could kick in the spousal protection act that she may get part of the retirement should you go that far. Good luck, mine was after 25 years and she got 50% of my retirement.
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SFC David McMahon
MSG William Wold - That's actually slightly amusing (not in your case) BUT I posted a question how a former spouse receives this amount.
I know a former spouse who was married for 12 years and has a divorce decree stating the amount to be paid once retired.
After the former service member retired from active duty, the former spouse filed the necessary paperwork to receive said amount (DFAS confirmed all paperwork was in order) and then DFAS proceeded to tell her she would not receive this money until the service member was 60 (ha ha).
I don't know what to tell her...and the answers to my question followed my same research.
But your right in your reply. Sorry for your "loss".
I know a former spouse who was married for 12 years and has a divorce decree stating the amount to be paid once retired.
After the former service member retired from active duty, the former spouse filed the necessary paperwork to receive said amount (DFAS confirmed all paperwork was in order) and then DFAS proceeded to tell her she would not receive this money until the service member was 60 (ha ha).
I don't know what to tell her...and the answers to my question followed my same research.
But your right in your reply. Sorry for your "loss".
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SGT Callis, I have endured an excruciating divorce throughout the last 12 months, and my trial is set for 23 May. FYI, not all divorces go to trial. Be very prudent when choosing an attorney. So far, I have hired four lawyers; the previous three led me down a path that were unfavorable to me. Had I listened to them, I would have lost my homestead and been forced to move; I would not have gotten all the banking/investments/assets & liabilities/employment/et al records that I am entitled to have by law (which is 100%), etc. I am age-55, 32 years of military service, recently retired as an O-5, and returned to the USA from Europe a few years ago. I also don't have any children. I could be considered an expert in divorce law by now. Right now, I surmise that you are in the age range of 25-30, you have less than 10 years of military service due to your rank, and your wife is within 5 years of your age. I only mention these items, because time in service and time in marriage matters, but more so when it starts to reach 10 and 20 years of overlapping times. Here's my advice below.
1. This first statement is paramount to remember—All divorce attorneys care about are that they get paid timely and they will divide whatever assets and liabilities between you and your wife. You are young and probably have fewer assets and more liabilities (or debt) together in your marriage. The older one gets, the assets usually grow and the liabilities fluctuate.
2. All judges care about are that the divorce attorneys do their jobs, both parties show no contempt during the divorce, and both parties behave civilly and respectfully. If they don’t, then a judge may be forced to divide everything 50/50 and levy fines if necessary. As a result and depending on circumstances, you or your wife, or both may get short-changed and dispirited.
3. Attorneys are notorious for playing games (or strategizing as they would say) and not answering your questions fully or only responding to them artfully (leaving you to ask more questions or asking the same questions again to get the same answer). I have the impression they employ these tactics to draw you into a series of phone and email exchanges. Remember, all phone calls, emails, and appointments are costing you, except maybe the initial meeting or phone call.
4. Attorneys mainly advise and advocate for you; you and their paralegals do all the tedious work. Attorneys don’t get bogged down with research and other time-consuming tasks. You are paying both the attorney and the paralegal for their time in incremental minutes (phone calls and emails) and hours (appointments), but their service fees should be vastly different and stated in the law firm’s retainer agreement before you sign it. Fees usually depend on years of experience and functions. If you don’t see the breakout of fees, ask!
5. Expensive attorneys are often not any better than cheaper ones. If someone has lots of wealth, more expensive attorneys may be the solution. The greater wealth one has, the harder an attorney works for you. It shouldn’t be this way, but it seems to be true.
6. If you and your wife can work out a divorce on your own, like a software program, it’s much cheaper. In your case without children, it would most likely divide your assets and liabilities, then you would just pay the associated divorce filing and court fees. I do know a few couples (same age group as me), who did this, and the couples merely walked away from the marriage with whatever belonged to them in the beginning. Being overseas and apart from your wife, this reason alone may force you to hire an attorney and represent you. Sometimes, I have heard of married couples, who just wanted to split amicably and take their own possessions, using the same attorney to save money.
7. All states have “no fault” divorce law, meaning it doesn’t matter whether you or your wife are unfaithful with one or many suitors. It doesn’t matter who spent what, how much, and how often. Remember, the attorneys are only looking to separate your assets and liabilities. Another tidbit… the division of all assets and liabilities are negotiable, meaning you might want this versus that and your wife is willing to compromise, and vice versa. States have different laws pertaining to division of assets or payment disbursements relating to inherited property, pensions, alimony, etc. Court and filing fees are set differently in each state too. Do your own research or ask your legal service office at your military installation for some guidance.
8. Try to remove your emotions early and throughout. Avoid going to trial too! To date, I have compiled $50,000 of debt in legal fees; $20,000 of it is my trial retainer alone. This is my portion only.
9. If you and spouse hire separate lawyers, stop all communication with your spouse. Part of a lawyer’s or spouse’s game is to trap you into a corner, whether you think so or not, for their gains. It may be hard in certain circumstances, but you must understand that it is for your advantage.
10. I recommend contacting the attorney who wrote the book, called The Military Divorce Handbook ISBN-13: [login to see] 051. The attorney is Mark E. Sullivan, a retired Army Colonel, and his Administrative Assistant is Barbara Gallis. They work in Raleigh, NC and can be reached at office phone, [login to see] ; or you can look up the law firm at http://www.ncfamilylaw.com. You may contact Ms. Gallis for attorney referrals (who they partner with) in the states of Tennessee, Maryland, or the state of marriage license. This firm might give you other suggestions, but they will have to run a conflict check on you and your spouse first. The conflict check is standard protocol to see if they represented or had other ties to you or your spouse in the past.
In any event, I hope these items of advice help you and others out there. It's my part in giving back. Good luck!
1. This first statement is paramount to remember—All divorce attorneys care about are that they get paid timely and they will divide whatever assets and liabilities between you and your wife. You are young and probably have fewer assets and more liabilities (or debt) together in your marriage. The older one gets, the assets usually grow and the liabilities fluctuate.
2. All judges care about are that the divorce attorneys do their jobs, both parties show no contempt during the divorce, and both parties behave civilly and respectfully. If they don’t, then a judge may be forced to divide everything 50/50 and levy fines if necessary. As a result and depending on circumstances, you or your wife, or both may get short-changed and dispirited.
3. Attorneys are notorious for playing games (or strategizing as they would say) and not answering your questions fully or only responding to them artfully (leaving you to ask more questions or asking the same questions again to get the same answer). I have the impression they employ these tactics to draw you into a series of phone and email exchanges. Remember, all phone calls, emails, and appointments are costing you, except maybe the initial meeting or phone call.
4. Attorneys mainly advise and advocate for you; you and their paralegals do all the tedious work. Attorneys don’t get bogged down with research and other time-consuming tasks. You are paying both the attorney and the paralegal for their time in incremental minutes (phone calls and emails) and hours (appointments), but their service fees should be vastly different and stated in the law firm’s retainer agreement before you sign it. Fees usually depend on years of experience and functions. If you don’t see the breakout of fees, ask!
5. Expensive attorneys are often not any better than cheaper ones. If someone has lots of wealth, more expensive attorneys may be the solution. The greater wealth one has, the harder an attorney works for you. It shouldn’t be this way, but it seems to be true.
6. If you and your wife can work out a divorce on your own, like a software program, it’s much cheaper. In your case without children, it would most likely divide your assets and liabilities, then you would just pay the associated divorce filing and court fees. I do know a few couples (same age group as me), who did this, and the couples merely walked away from the marriage with whatever belonged to them in the beginning. Being overseas and apart from your wife, this reason alone may force you to hire an attorney and represent you. Sometimes, I have heard of married couples, who just wanted to split amicably and take their own possessions, using the same attorney to save money.
7. All states have “no fault” divorce law, meaning it doesn’t matter whether you or your wife are unfaithful with one or many suitors. It doesn’t matter who spent what, how much, and how often. Remember, the attorneys are only looking to separate your assets and liabilities. Another tidbit… the division of all assets and liabilities are negotiable, meaning you might want this versus that and your wife is willing to compromise, and vice versa. States have different laws pertaining to division of assets or payment disbursements relating to inherited property, pensions, alimony, etc. Court and filing fees are set differently in each state too. Do your own research or ask your legal service office at your military installation for some guidance.
8. Try to remove your emotions early and throughout. Avoid going to trial too! To date, I have compiled $50,000 of debt in legal fees; $20,000 of it is my trial retainer alone. This is my portion only.
9. If you and spouse hire separate lawyers, stop all communication with your spouse. Part of a lawyer’s or spouse’s game is to trap you into a corner, whether you think so or not, for their gains. It may be hard in certain circumstances, but you must understand that it is for your advantage.
10. I recommend contacting the attorney who wrote the book, called The Military Divorce Handbook ISBN-13: [login to see] 051. The attorney is Mark E. Sullivan, a retired Army Colonel, and his Administrative Assistant is Barbara Gallis. They work in Raleigh, NC and can be reached at office phone, [login to see] ; or you can look up the law firm at http://www.ncfamilylaw.com. You may contact Ms. Gallis for attorney referrals (who they partner with) in the states of Tennessee, Maryland, or the state of marriage license. This firm might give you other suggestions, but they will have to run a conflict check on you and your spouse first. The conflict check is standard protocol to see if they represented or had other ties to you or your spouse in the past.
In any event, I hope these items of advice help you and others out there. It's my part in giving back. Good luck!
North Carolina Divorce Attorneys, North Carolina Family Law firm, Law Offices of Mark E....
North Carolina Family Law Firm: Law Offices of Mark E. Sullivan, P.A., handling divorce, mililtary divorce, custody, child support, mediation, arbitration, North Carolina family law, domestic law, alimony, visitation, Divorce in North Carolina
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LTC Robert Chaucierre
Point of clarification: Like someone else stated in an earlier email, it does matter whether you had adulterous affairs in the military, but not in civilian court. Regardless and like the other LTC said, live like a monk and don't stray! Stay proud to serve and do it honorably.
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SGT (Join to see)
Wow. Thank you very much Sir for all this advice. Fortunately , I have already spent 4 months away from her so I'm hoping this counts towards our "separation period." Thank you for all the advice.
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LTC Robert Chaucierre
SGT Callis, I'm not sure whether a "4-month separation period" contributes to your case? It probably does, if you filed a notice for formal separation. I informally separated from my wife one month after I returned to the USA from Germany. I won't get into the details of why; it's too much to write. Anyway, my wife initiated the divorce 2-½ years after the informal separation. The court assigns a valuation date to all divorces. These dates may correspond to the initial appearance of both parties in court. Obviously, one side might be truant (or AWOL) at this initial court meeting; however, the valuation date of this meeting still stands. Regardless, I believe the valuation date will eventually be the official date of divorce set in the decree? I will surely find mine out next month. Moreover, a party can petition change to the valuation date to an earlier date; i.e., if it is an advantage and the party can prove the new date to be credible. In your case, if you filed a formal separation, this date may be petitioned or used as a credible valuation date (or date of divorce). Addendum #1: It's important to know that each attorney (paired with paralegal) has several or more divorce cases on retainer to work simultaneously. Even though you may want an attorney to give your case more attention, a client usually comports with the schedules of the court, both attorneys, and the other party (your wife). Addendum #2: Like someone previously stated, I hope you have separate financial accounts, removed her from any joint accounts and all powers of attorney (POAs). It keeps a spouse from spending feverishly from joint accounts before the divorce process is known to all. Addendum #3: Another person recommended using a JAG or DoD-provided civilian legal service at your installation overseas. Even though these sources may not represent or advise you, they can help you research your better options to file for divorce in different states, guide you in the process to remove your spouse from accounts and POAs, and other neutral actions. It may seem unlikely, but there is a probability that a licensed and practicing divorce attorney lives in Europe for your convenience? This is an chance that your local installation's legal service office might know one. Even the attorney and handbook author, Mark E. Sullivan, who I referenced in my response yesterday, might know of a practicing attorney in Europe. Addendum #4: When your divorce attorney requires you to provide copies of all your financial, employment, assets and liability records; know that your banks and other institutions normally charge service fees. Depending on how far back in time one goes, the costs will increase.
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Sorry to hear you and your wife are not able to work it out. Remember a quick fix to a long turn problem normal does not work out. If I may make a suggestion talk to your Chaplain. And remember it is not about things but you have two lives that have been impacted by the chain of events that have brought you to this point. The first question I would as is - is your wife there with you in Germany or stateside? And remember this your emotion will lie to you also. Are you able to talk to her? The major question? " Is there someone else in either of you all life?" I think the first step is the Chaplain and then work your way from there. You may not believe this but it will have a big impact on your life and future if not done correctly.
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