Posted on Apr 4, 2016
Should it be easier to give a demotion due to history inefficiency or poor performance?
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We have an automatic promotion system in the early stages in the military. Sometimes soldiers promote far too fast. If there continually fail at this new position shouldn't a demotion be an option to correct the situation?
Personally I have seen soldiers that were far out of their level of competency. They may have been a great person in all but you can tell they are out of their league. After multiple attempts of mentoring and counseling have failed shouldn't a demotion be as simple as a promotion. Especially in the case when a subordinate leader is doing their job? I have seen a junior soldier put in charge of NCO that out ranks them due to the inability of the Senior NCOs ability to lead. It's not ideal but what options are left?
Have you dealt with this or seen this take place?
Personally I have seen soldiers that were far out of their level of competency. They may have been a great person in all but you can tell they are out of their league. After multiple attempts of mentoring and counseling have failed shouldn't a demotion be as simple as a promotion. Especially in the case when a subordinate leader is doing their job? I have seen a junior soldier put in charge of NCO that out ranks them due to the inability of the Senior NCOs ability to lead. It's not ideal but what options are left?
Have you dealt with this or seen this take place?
Promotions
Rank
Leadership
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 38
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If you have the counseling and the failure to meet standard, consult with a lawyer. Overall though, if you want it to be easier to demote NCO's, than it should be the same for officers. I have probably met more sorry officers than NCO's in my tenure.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
JAG is always involved for demotions regarding E5 and higher. Since they all have to be done through HRC, If I am not wrong. E4 and below is just a DA Form 4187 away.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
SGT(P) (Join to see) - Research the difference between company and field grade article 15. That should clarify your comment. If you can find it there are also CG Art 15's, but they are rare.
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No. We should use the tools in place to promote properly. The reason soldiers get promoted into positions they aren't capable of filling, is because they weren't rated properly.
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CPT (Join to see)
Very true. I am a fan of utilizing merit but even then we can get it wrong at times.
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SSgt (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - In my experience, either the rater doesn't have the balls to address shortcomings in the soldier, or E4evals and NCOERs were let go to the last minute and a bunch of cookie cutter evals get written which leads to good troops getting shorted, and lesser troops getting promoted to soon.
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MGySgt James Forward
Doesn't the solider have to RECOMMENDED for promotion? In the USMC if you are not recommended for promotion, you get a Page 11 entry and the you are counseled as to why and given a track to correct your deficiency. In many units a promotion to LCPL, CPL and SGT requires a board to make sure you can handle the position. As for demotion, you need to determine the cause to affect a correction. Continued Page 11 entries will eventually lead to a board to demote, or in some cases provide you with ammunition for discharge. I hate automatic promotions based on time is grade. Leadership has failed when people who should be a Lcpl, get promoted to NCO.
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Unfortunately there is a "cultural" aspect involved. A demotion is effectively a "Career Killer." So let's rephrase your question.
"Should it be easier to kill a career?"
I don't think anyone would say yes. Unless we were to MASSIVELY change our culture to the point where being Relieved/Fired/Demoted/etc was not the de facto end of someone's military career, should it be easier to do so. Our current system has A LOT of safeguards in place because of that.
It also slows down promotion through rigidization because of that as well. That doesn't mean people won't get promoted too fast, but "what are the numbers?" Would the juice be worth the squeeze?
"Should it be easier to kill a career?"
I don't think anyone would say yes. Unless we were to MASSIVELY change our culture to the point where being Relieved/Fired/Demoted/etc was not the de facto end of someone's military career, should it be easier to do so. Our current system has A LOT of safeguards in place because of that.
It also slows down promotion through rigidization because of that as well. That doesn't mean people won't get promoted too fast, but "what are the numbers?" Would the juice be worth the squeeze?
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SMSgt Thor Merich
Changing the system so that a demotion isn't a career killer would go a long way. Especially with senior NCO's or field grade officers.
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