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So, I went to see my VA Rep as I begin my final transition into retirement. I tried to hand her a CD, containing my medical records in .pdf format. She tells me I can't give her a CD because it "might contain viruses".
She then tells me that I need to print out my medical records - preferably single sided so she doesn't have to flip the friggin pages.
I am somewhat taken aback, but tell her I'll bring the records by Thursday (today).
I go home, look at my records, and realize, that I have almost 780 pages of medical records!
No way in hell I'm printing that at home. I go into work this morning, and use a computer at work to print ALL 780 +/- pages.
I then take this STACK of papers that weighs about 10 lbs, and drop it on her desk. She doesn't bat an eye.
THIS, is waste, and abuse. That the VA can't or won't accept .pdf documents is ridiculous.
People want to know why the VA was 18 months behind???!!!! THIS is why the VA was 18 months behind! When probably more than 60% of retirees have a stack of health records that outweigh a city bus. THIS is one reason why the VA has a horrible reputation. THIS is why people don't like dealing with the VA, because they HAVE IDIOTS in charge that MAKE DECISIONS that mean you have to drop a ton of paper onto some flunky's desk in order to file a disability claim!
Oh, and I still have MORE records to give them as soon as I get them in the next month or so!
IDIOTS!
Rant over...
She then tells me that I need to print out my medical records - preferably single sided so she doesn't have to flip the friggin pages.
I am somewhat taken aback, but tell her I'll bring the records by Thursday (today).
I go home, look at my records, and realize, that I have almost 780 pages of medical records!
No way in hell I'm printing that at home. I go into work this morning, and use a computer at work to print ALL 780 +/- pages.
I then take this STACK of papers that weighs about 10 lbs, and drop it on her desk. She doesn't bat an eye.
THIS, is waste, and abuse. That the VA can't or won't accept .pdf documents is ridiculous.
People want to know why the VA was 18 months behind???!!!! THIS is why the VA was 18 months behind! When probably more than 60% of retirees have a stack of health records that outweigh a city bus. THIS is one reason why the VA has a horrible reputation. THIS is why people don't like dealing with the VA, because they HAVE IDIOTS in charge that MAKE DECISIONS that mean you have to drop a ton of paper onto some flunky's desk in order to file a disability claim!
Oh, and I still have MORE records to give them as soon as I get them in the next month or so!
IDIOTS!
Rant over...
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
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SFC (Join to see) I hear this a lot from veterans. I'm not going to defend the VA, per se, but maybe give you a different perspective on what you were asked for. Typically, under current agreement between the VA and DOD nearly all records are transferred over to the VA at some point after retirement, discharge, etc. Key word is typically. It's easy to think the VA would be ready and eager to accept your disc - but be realistic. Most businesses won't take your data off a disc - not because they can't but because they WON'T. Business owners, managers and supervisors are all working from the premise of lowest common denominator - people. People make mistakes. The request for single sided copies; Really? can it be that hard to figure out why they insist on that? These pages get fed into a hopper, the hopper feeds a machine that copies the page, makes an electronic version of said page and moves to the next page. It does these in batches - your 780 pages was one single batch. No one monitors the batch, no one turns over a previously copied page to get the other side. Properly run, your 780 pages took less than 2 minutes to copy, electronically flash and catalog. Who do you know can turn over 390 pages in less than 2 minutes? The people running the machine? Not someone that makes a decision over what page has been copied and which one that has not been copied. The person running the machine probably doesn't even look at what's been copied to make sure it looks good on the screen - assuming they even look at what's on the screen as it flashes by.
CD's have had virus issues. Hell, emails have viruses. So, you're ticked off cuz the VA won't take your CD - get over it. Which do you want - a relatively slower process or a completely shut down process because some jacka$$ didn't run a computer virus scan on his CD and the virus shuts down the entire electronic intake system for a Region, which basically shuts down any new processing until the virus in the system is found, isolated and quarantined - unless the entire system has to be rebooted from the beginning...which could take months. Then once the system is back online they have to figure out what "restore point" they can go back to .... everything after that has to be re-entered, from scratch. It's simpler to just avoid things like thumbdrives and CD's altogether. I know of agencies that have literally physically either removed or blocked access by thumb drives and CD's because of the issue on some of their more sensitive systems.
Frankly 780 pages, one sided, is not that much, unless of course you're the one paying for it.
I get your rant. I appreciate your candor. The VA system is far, far, far from perfect. Trust me, I deal with it a lot more and much more often than you do.
One final thought, get yourself an advocate. There are several dozen to choose from. Use a VA form 21-22 and elect one. Of course, I'm prejudiced - I like the VFW. I have a great deal of respect for all the other choices you have for Veteran Service Organizations with Veteran Service Officers. Some of them have actually helped me learned "tricks of the trade" so to speak. Get an advocate. By having an advocate you now have someone that can actually look at your claim as it goes through the processing. If there's an obvious issue, the advocate can even call you to urge you to fix the problem and even help you with the fix.
And NO, you don't have to be a member of that organization to get help from a Service Officer.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Never Deal With the VA ALONE!
CD's have had virus issues. Hell, emails have viruses. So, you're ticked off cuz the VA won't take your CD - get over it. Which do you want - a relatively slower process or a completely shut down process because some jacka$$ didn't run a computer virus scan on his CD and the virus shuts down the entire electronic intake system for a Region, which basically shuts down any new processing until the virus in the system is found, isolated and quarantined - unless the entire system has to be rebooted from the beginning...which could take months. Then once the system is back online they have to figure out what "restore point" they can go back to .... everything after that has to be re-entered, from scratch. It's simpler to just avoid things like thumbdrives and CD's altogether. I know of agencies that have literally physically either removed or blocked access by thumb drives and CD's because of the issue on some of their more sensitive systems.
Frankly 780 pages, one sided, is not that much, unless of course you're the one paying for it.
I get your rant. I appreciate your candor. The VA system is far, far, far from perfect. Trust me, I deal with it a lot more and much more often than you do.
One final thought, get yourself an advocate. There are several dozen to choose from. Use a VA form 21-22 and elect one. Of course, I'm prejudiced - I like the VFW. I have a great deal of respect for all the other choices you have for Veteran Service Organizations with Veteran Service Officers. Some of them have actually helped me learned "tricks of the trade" so to speak. Get an advocate. By having an advocate you now have someone that can actually look at your claim as it goes through the processing. If there's an obvious issue, the advocate can even call you to urge you to fix the problem and even help you with the fix.
And NO, you don't have to be a member of that organization to get help from a Service Officer.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Never Deal With the VA ALONE!
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SFC (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see): While I get what your saying, in this case, my VA Case Worker told me specifically "Please don't give me double sided copies, because it's easier for ME to look at your paperwork that way." Nothing about a hopper, or batch scanning them in. Only because it's easier for her because she wouldn't have to flip the page over and read the back. I have read many one sided and two sided documents in my time - and neither is easier to do than the other unless you're REALLY, REALLY LAZY and don't want to have to think.
Additionally, while I understand perfectly well the danger from viruses, these were actually sent to me from the military treatment facility in e-mail. So, if it's good enough for the military, why not for the VA. In fact, I'll do you one better: Why don't the VA and the military get together, and communicate with each other, and the military send the medical records (with my permission) to the VA directly, so I don't have to screw with printing out 780 pages? There is nothing illegal under HIPPA preventing them from doing that. That eliminates the military sending me the docs electronically (except as a copy for me), me having to print them, then take them to the VA, and the VA having to batch process them back into electronic form, which is what they started out as in the first place, as SPC Brian Aranda already mentioned.
The VA is a much needed resource for military veterans, but everything I see, screams that there is fraud, waste, and abuse - including abuse of power - which is another story - going on at the VA. The VA hospital scheduling gaff is just one part of it, that actually went public because someone died. I get that many of the workers are just trying to make a living, and many of them actually enjoy helping veterans and doing their jobs, and are not corrupt or lazy. The problems - the systemic problems - come from the top, and how they choose to manage issues and problems. To me, looking up from the bottom, and in from the outside, the workers that deal with the VA Claims, don't care, nor do the senior staff.
Additionally, while I understand perfectly well the danger from viruses, these were actually sent to me from the military treatment facility in e-mail. So, if it's good enough for the military, why not for the VA. In fact, I'll do you one better: Why don't the VA and the military get together, and communicate with each other, and the military send the medical records (with my permission) to the VA directly, so I don't have to screw with printing out 780 pages? There is nothing illegal under HIPPA preventing them from doing that. That eliminates the military sending me the docs electronically (except as a copy for me), me having to print them, then take them to the VA, and the VA having to batch process them back into electronic form, which is what they started out as in the first place, as SPC Brian Aranda already mentioned.
The VA is a much needed resource for military veterans, but everything I see, screams that there is fraud, waste, and abuse - including abuse of power - which is another story - going on at the VA. The VA hospital scheduling gaff is just one part of it, that actually went public because someone died. I get that many of the workers are just trying to make a living, and many of them actually enjoy helping veterans and doing their jobs, and are not corrupt or lazy. The problems - the systemic problems - come from the top, and how they choose to manage issues and problems. To me, looking up from the bottom, and in from the outside, the workers that deal with the VA Claims, don't care, nor do the senior staff.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SPC Brian Aranda SFC (Join to see) Folks - you're preaching to the choir! The biggest issue in a huge corporation is always at the top. The VA is the largest single, integrated healthcare system in the U.S. There is no way it's not being handled as efficiently as possible - agreed. The computers being used are antiques and the people you deal with are not always the sharpest tools in the shed.
Like anything - it's got to improve and it is. Progress made is never enough and there's always more to do when it comes to becoming better. Again, you're preaching to the choir. As for the people that deal with claims - I would bet that the intake person you dealt with is in no way a decision maker. But, once again, this is just one of the reasons I tell everyone - DON'T DEAL WITH THE VA ALONE! With an advocate to look at your claim, while it is in process, at each step, your claim can be helped along it's path.
As for the IT department putting special scanning computers up - in my opinion a waste of time. There is no way any anti-virus system / scanning program can be up to date on the latest problems all the time. Too many people learn that lesson the hard way, as have many government organizations such as the VA. The VA didn't just wake up one day and say "no CD's", they did after repeated crashes and loss of data - which by the way, caused thousands of claims to be lost and forced to be recreated causing even more delay. The "no CD" policy was not done to be an a$$ - it was done to protect the data in the system - OUR information, OUR paperwork, OUR claims. Is it imperfect? Yep. Is it a pain in the a$$ to have to print one sided so one person can do it "their way"? Yep. Get over it. The girl dealing with your claim is not the system, she's a cog in the system - doing the best she can with what skills she brings to the table.
Like anything - it's got to improve and it is. Progress made is never enough and there's always more to do when it comes to becoming better. Again, you're preaching to the choir. As for the people that deal with claims - I would bet that the intake person you dealt with is in no way a decision maker. But, once again, this is just one of the reasons I tell everyone - DON'T DEAL WITH THE VA ALONE! With an advocate to look at your claim, while it is in process, at each step, your claim can be helped along it's path.
As for the IT department putting special scanning computers up - in my opinion a waste of time. There is no way any anti-virus system / scanning program can be up to date on the latest problems all the time. Too many people learn that lesson the hard way, as have many government organizations such as the VA. The VA didn't just wake up one day and say "no CD's", they did after repeated crashes and loss of data - which by the way, caused thousands of claims to be lost and forced to be recreated causing even more delay. The "no CD" policy was not done to be an a$$ - it was done to protect the data in the system - OUR information, OUR paperwork, OUR claims. Is it imperfect? Yep. Is it a pain in the a$$ to have to print one sided so one person can do it "their way"? Yep. Get over it. The girl dealing with your claim is not the system, she's a cog in the system - doing the best she can with what skills she brings to the table.
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SFC (Join to see)
PO1 (Join to see): Getting over it isn't the right response. It only allows the VA (or other organizations) to continue to provide grossly sub-par service without repercussions. I can list at least three or four ways the VA could improve itself across the board, and #1 on the list, is to do what major corporations do when they're too big to manage themselves: break up into smaller divisions/sub-corporations - controlled overall by the large one, but each smaller one independent enough to make decisions that benefit the company - in the case of the VA, they have partially done that with a division for health care, a division for education, a division for death benefits, and a few others. In the case of health care, they need to break into a division for hospital and health services, one for VA disability claims (intake) and one for claims (already processed) and so on. #2 is that the Secretary of the VA, needs to be able to fire senior level personnel - which Shinseki couldn't even do and as far as I know, the new Secretary - Robert A. McDonald - can't do either. There isn't a corporation in the world where the CEO can't fire someone for poor performance, except in the government.
So, get over it? Hell no. I'll keep complaining and telling them how they can improve, that they need to improve, until they do improve. Can I force them? No.. but if enough people join me and complain, then maybe as a large group, we can force them.
BTW: For everyone's edification: There are three types of complaining:
1) Legitimate complaining, where the complainer is trying to solve a problem, has a solution, and presents both the problem and the solution to the party receiving the complaint. This type of complaining is the most legitimate form of complaint. This is what I am trying to do here.
2) Bitching, where the complainer is trying to solve a problem, doesn't know the answer to solve the problem, but presents the complaint in hopes that the person the complaint is being presented to, can either solve the problem, or push it higher and maybe get it solved. This type of complaining only has legitimacy if the person doing the bitching honestly wants the problem solved but doesn't know how to solve it him/herself. While I don't have all the answers, there are people who do have some of them that I may not have, and they can help.
3) Whining. This is not a legitimate form of complaint, because the whiner is only complaining to hear themselves complain. They don't really understand the problem, they don't care what may be causing the problem, and usually, they are the reason for the problem. Additionally, they have no desire to really have the problem solved, and really just want everyone else to suffer along with them. This type of complaint is never legitimate, and the person who is hearing this type of complaint, has a duty to solve the problem by telling the whiner to shut up. This is not what I'm doing here (at least, I hope I'm not) because I have legitimate answers that can and would help (at least IMHO).
So, get over it? Hell no. I'll keep complaining and telling them how they can improve, that they need to improve, until they do improve. Can I force them? No.. but if enough people join me and complain, then maybe as a large group, we can force them.
BTW: For everyone's edification: There are three types of complaining:
1) Legitimate complaining, where the complainer is trying to solve a problem, has a solution, and presents both the problem and the solution to the party receiving the complaint. This type of complaining is the most legitimate form of complaint. This is what I am trying to do here.
2) Bitching, where the complainer is trying to solve a problem, doesn't know the answer to solve the problem, but presents the complaint in hopes that the person the complaint is being presented to, can either solve the problem, or push it higher and maybe get it solved. This type of complaining only has legitimacy if the person doing the bitching honestly wants the problem solved but doesn't know how to solve it him/herself. While I don't have all the answers, there are people who do have some of them that I may not have, and they can help.
3) Whining. This is not a legitimate form of complaint, because the whiner is only complaining to hear themselves complain. They don't really understand the problem, they don't care what may be causing the problem, and usually, they are the reason for the problem. Additionally, they have no desire to really have the problem solved, and really just want everyone else to suffer along with them. This type of complaint is never legitimate, and the person who is hearing this type of complaint, has a duty to solve the problem by telling the whiner to shut up. This is not what I'm doing here (at least, I hope I'm not) because I have legitimate answers that can and would help (at least IMHO).
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PO1 (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) Actually, for the record, the VA is already divided into those areas - it's just not visible to the naked eye. Healthcare is an entity unto itself. Claims is an entity unto itself. The healthcare side only inputs data on the care it provides to the veteran - it makes no decisions on the claims process. The claims process makes no determinations on the care provided to the veteran.
I think you, your obvious passion and your obvious skills might be useful as one of the many Service Officers certified to assist other veterans in their process. But that's on you to decide. I agree with you on the issues within the VA - trust me I'm very damned mad at some of the things I've seen done to veterans over the years. Rather than debate the issue ad nasaseum I opt to be part of a Veteran Service Organization (VFW) and I voice my concerns, along with millions of other veterans together, to Congressmen/women, the DOD, the head of the VA, etc. When I see an issue happening to a veteran, I ask my fellow VFW Service Officers for ideas, because I don't know everything. I speak to veterans daily about things happening to them, difficulties, healthcare, claims, etc. I can't fix everything wrong in the VA by myself complaining - but I know damn good and well that Congress hears my voice - along with millions of other veterans with the same complaints.
I think you, your obvious passion and your obvious skills might be useful as one of the many Service Officers certified to assist other veterans in their process. But that's on you to decide. I agree with you on the issues within the VA - trust me I'm very damned mad at some of the things I've seen done to veterans over the years. Rather than debate the issue ad nasaseum I opt to be part of a Veteran Service Organization (VFW) and I voice my concerns, along with millions of other veterans together, to Congressmen/women, the DOD, the head of the VA, etc. When I see an issue happening to a veteran, I ask my fellow VFW Service Officers for ideas, because I don't know everything. I speak to veterans daily about things happening to them, difficulties, healthcare, claims, etc. I can't fix everything wrong in the VA by myself complaining - but I know damn good and well that Congress hears my voice - along with millions of other veterans with the same complaints.
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The VA like many government organizations and the local DMV are GOVERNMENT run organizations which are underfunded, understaffed and under-enthusiastic about change due to the 2 aforementioned factors. The irony is that these organizations have sheer volumes of people to deal with so you think they would get the fiscal financial attention they deserve instead of funding rockets to Mars. Unfortunately the people employed by these organizations have become as strict and narrow minded as the antiquated doctrine, regulations, technology and bureaucracy they are forced to adhere to and uphold. Technology-wise because of funding, their systems are years outdated and nowhere near the current technology forefront which makes dealing with these organizations even that much more difficult. Blame the perpetually elected hypocrisy for these messes, they're the one's who won't get any of it fixed. Instead our elected officials blame the leadership of the organizations whose hands they themselves tie.
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My friend told me they did that to him as well and then said they didn't need it. geez
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