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Over the weekend at a training conference an NCO giving a class on standards and discipline asked the group to stand up. He then asked for everyone to sit down whose back pockets were buttoned. I was not one of the NCO's who sat as I always keep my left rear pocket unbuttoned and tucked in as this is where my wallet is at. He then attributed this as a lack of discipline.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
Uniforms
NCOs
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 86
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INTEGRITY - To do what is legally and morally right; even when no one is looking. (Even under my pocket flap to see if it is buttoned). <right or wrong>
AR 670-1, Chapter 3 a.(3) Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped. <right or wrong>
I wish the voting allowed a different answer. My response is that if there is a zipper, then zip it. If there are buttons, then button them. But, I would consider it a stretch to call a Senior NCO a "soup sandwich" for having the rear trouser pocket (with wallet) unbuttoned.
I do take pride in expressing to my new recruits that there are 12 pockets on their ACUs (not including the knee and elbow pad pockets). Of those 12 pockets, only two are not required to be "closed" and those are the two front trouser pockets which have not buttons, velcro, or zipper.
"I always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself." [this includes camel backs, duffel bags, wall lockers, uniforms, etc . . . ]
AR 670-1, Chapter 3 a.(3) Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped. <right or wrong>
I wish the voting allowed a different answer. My response is that if there is a zipper, then zip it. If there are buttons, then button them. But, I would consider it a stretch to call a Senior NCO a "soup sandwich" for having the rear trouser pocket (with wallet) unbuttoned.
I do take pride in expressing to my new recruits that there are 12 pockets on their ACUs (not including the knee and elbow pad pockets). Of those 12 pockets, only two are not required to be "closed" and those are the two front trouser pockets which have not buttons, velcro, or zipper.
"I always maintain my arms, my equipment, and myself." [this includes camel backs, duffel bags, wall lockers, uniforms, etc . . . ]
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MSG (Join to see)
I wish I wouldn've seen this before I responded to MAJ C and wrote my response to this thread, but it further goes to prove my point. And to show me there are still NCO's out there who believe in doing what's right and not what's convient. Thanks SSG Bryant.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
I didn’t do the poll, but rules are rules. Is it that much of a big deal to button that one button? I don’t see undisciplined as much as a bit of convenience. Your an NCO you follow the rules or your not capable on enforcing them to your Jrs. All in or out imo, what rule might they want to challenge if your doing the same thing? You going to write them up?
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Cpl (Join to see)
True statement... and now that garrison life is in the immediate future, things like buttons being buttoned will replace things like are their mortars inbound.
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If the reg says keep it buttoned, and you don't keep it buttoned, are you afraid of possible repercussions from your superiors? Do you think you will lose the respect of your fellow Servicemembers? If not, you probably don't have anything to worry about. If you have to wonder about it, button your pockets. My TRADOC viewpoint: If I am correcting Soldiers for chewing gum and the wrong PT socks in formation, my pockets aren't going to be violating the regs or policy letters either.
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MSG(P) (Join to see)
SFC Watkins, thanks for the reply. It's not about fear of repercussions for me, not fear of losing respect. It's about doing the right things because I expect others to also do the right things. My buttons are now buttoned. Lol.
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SFC Gary Fox
When I was an MP Instructor, a female 1SG was chewing out one of my female students about her hair. There were quite a few other Soldiers around. My respect for the 1SG dropped a few notches because of how she was conducting this "counseling." Berating a Soldier in front of their peers is just wrong. While I watched, I observed the 1SG was wearing bright red nail polish. My respect for the 1SG dropped even more. I took another good look and noticed the 1SG was wearing her blonde hair up using a black scrunchy. Respect level dropped even further.
When the 1SG started calling the Soldier "stupid" I decided to intercede. I told the 1SG this was one of my students and I would take care of it and sent the student on to her class. I then asked the 1SG if I could speak to her privately. We stepped out of earshot from everyone else and told her AR 670-1 states females are not to wear lipstick or nail polishthat distinctly contrast with their complexion, that detract from the uniform, or that are extreme. I then pointed out her nail polish was bright red. I then informed her AR 670-1 states all hair holding devices must be plain and of a color as close to the soldier’s hair as is possible or clear. I reminded her her hair was blonde and she was holding it up with a black scrunchy. She then asked, "Who the hell do you think you are to tell a 1SG they are in violation of any regulation?" I told her I was a professional NCO who had an inherent responsibility to enforce regulations and make on the spot corrections regardless of the other person's rank. She then turned around and went back to her office.
I know that Soldier who was getting chewed by the 1SG noticed the red nail polish. Does anyone think she lost respect for the 1SG as I did. When you make an on the spot correction, you darn well should have your own ducks in a row.
By the way, in Iraq I corrected an O-6 who was wearing a tab that said, "INFIDEL" over his unit patch. He was sitting with another O-6 in the dining facility when I told him he should remove it as he was setting a bad example for Soldiers. He congratulated me. He said he had been wearing it every day for three weeks and I was the first NCO to come up and tell him he was wrong. I replied, "Thank you sir, but you would you please remove it now?" He laughed and did. He said he was trying to make a point to the other O-6 that NCOs no longer had the balls to correct officers.
When the 1SG started calling the Soldier "stupid" I decided to intercede. I told the 1SG this was one of my students and I would take care of it and sent the student on to her class. I then asked the 1SG if I could speak to her privately. We stepped out of earshot from everyone else and told her AR 670-1 states females are not to wear lipstick or nail polishthat distinctly contrast with their complexion, that detract from the uniform, or that are extreme. I then pointed out her nail polish was bright red. I then informed her AR 670-1 states all hair holding devices must be plain and of a color as close to the soldier’s hair as is possible or clear. I reminded her her hair was blonde and she was holding it up with a black scrunchy. She then asked, "Who the hell do you think you are to tell a 1SG they are in violation of any regulation?" I told her I was a professional NCO who had an inherent responsibility to enforce regulations and make on the spot corrections regardless of the other person's rank. She then turned around and went back to her office.
I know that Soldier who was getting chewed by the 1SG noticed the red nail polish. Does anyone think she lost respect for the 1SG as I did. When you make an on the spot correction, you darn well should have your own ducks in a row.
By the way, in Iraq I corrected an O-6 who was wearing a tab that said, "INFIDEL" over his unit patch. He was sitting with another O-6 in the dining facility when I told him he should remove it as he was setting a bad example for Soldiers. He congratulated me. He said he had been wearing it every day for three weeks and I was the first NCO to come up and tell him he was wrong. I replied, "Thank you sir, but you would you please remove it now?" He laughed and did. He said he was trying to make a point to the other O-6 that NCOs no longer had the balls to correct officers.
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