Posted on Dec 7, 2015
What are your thoughts on women abiding by the same PT standards as men? People complain about equal opportunity but how is this equal?
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EO
Women in the Military
Physical Training
APFT
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 65
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In my opinion the PT test isn't the greatest measurement of or physical fitness levels. I think that it's pretty simple. Now, on my last PT test I did 76 PU's and 104 SU's but ran a 16:28 or something like that. Does that mean that I'm not physically fit or not capable of performing the job to standard? No. At least I don't think so. At 5'3 and 143lbs my bench press is at 215 and squat is at 300. I can do 20 pull ups with no problem. I'm capable of carrying and heavy objects and stuff like that. I think that it should be more specific to what is actually being done regularly in the MOS. Not to go on a rant about me or to brag or anything but like you said, it doable. I didn't go to ranger school or anything like that. I'm just a little Ole Chaplain Assistant so, we are out there. Then again, if the female is going into that MOS, like yours, they should know themselves and what they are physically capable of doing before going out there because it's tough. It's much easier for a male to go into something that rigorous and be able to make it then it is for a female. I say, hold them to your standard but in a way that really shows what they are capable of doing.
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SGT (Join to see)
I agree that PT test isn't the best way to measure, but it is a cost effective one.
The point still is, that if we are gonna treat every soldier the same regardless of gender - then we need to treat every soldier the same, regardless of gender.
The point still is, that if we are gonna treat every soldier the same regardless of gender - then we need to treat every soldier the same, regardless of gender.
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CW2 (Join to see)
My question to you is this: Do you as a Male have to do a PT test that differs from all other Males in the Military? If not, why would the Female have to? Unless you are talking specifically about specialty school such as Ranger and Special Forces...your argument is null and void.
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SFC (Join to see)
CW2, I am not sure if your comment was directed towards me or not. If so, I am a female but that would be a legitimate question.
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Yes, they should.
But I also think that APFT standards should be established by MOS.
But I also think that APFT standards should be established by MOS.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
1SG (Join to see) - That's my point though. The APFT doesn't need to change. It is "outside" those standards.
The APFT is completely "separate" from what is required to be a "Desk Jockey" or a "Driver" or even an "Infantryman." It helps you be a SOLDIER. It has huge benefits on overall HEALTH, and will ASSIST you in Combat Prowess, and we absolutely should promote good Physical Fitness, but:
What APFT score do you need your Admin Clerk to have? What is the minimum score he needs to perform his day to day functions?
Replace Admin Clerk with any job in the Army, and see if you can give me a real score. I guarantee no one can, because there isn't one. It's a "Bad Metric" for measuring the effectiveness of "Functionality of Role."
We need a GOOD METRIC for measuring the effectiveness "Functionality of Role" otherwise we are going to keep getting the "If Women/Men are now allowed in X, why don't they have to perform to the same standard as Women/Men?" every 2 weeks.
The APFT is completely "separate" from what is required to be a "Desk Jockey" or a "Driver" or even an "Infantryman." It helps you be a SOLDIER. It has huge benefits on overall HEALTH, and will ASSIST you in Combat Prowess, and we absolutely should promote good Physical Fitness, but:
What APFT score do you need your Admin Clerk to have? What is the minimum score he needs to perform his day to day functions?
Replace Admin Clerk with any job in the Army, and see if you can give me a real score. I guarantee no one can, because there isn't one. It's a "Bad Metric" for measuring the effectiveness of "Functionality of Role."
We need a GOOD METRIC for measuring the effectiveness "Functionality of Role" otherwise we are going to keep getting the "If Women/Men are now allowed in X, why don't they have to perform to the same standard as Women/Men?" every 2 weeks.
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SGT (Join to see)
Top, I agree that there needs to be a review, but male standard would have to change down and female would have to move up to make them join and it would have to be over a period of time that it is phased in to the Army.
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CPT (Join to see)
1sg how do you establish a standard for your s1 shop and your combat arms? What would be the standard for s1?if it's specific to their job would it be how many wpm they can type? Or how fast can you load the printer?
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1SG (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) - I would take the tougher of the unit standards or the standards established by the proponents for MOSs 42A and 27D (the MOSs in my S1` shop).
MOS standards for the reasons I set out above. Since neither MOS is even remotely physical (as you point out), that would probably be the baseline Army standard.
Unit standards because even if they are in rear-echelon type positions, they are expected to train to the same standard as the core MOSs of my battalion. If we road march, they do. If we have a swim test, they do. If they can't run with the big boys, they need to go to a unit where they don't have to do the same physical activity and do great work as personnel bubbas in a rear-rear unit, or a unit that is more static. Plenty of garrison support and PSB positions for them.
MOS standards for the reasons I set out above. Since neither MOS is even remotely physical (as you point out), that would probably be the baseline Army standard.
Unit standards because even if they are in rear-echelon type positions, they are expected to train to the same standard as the core MOSs of my battalion. If we road march, they do. If we have a swim test, they do. If they can't run with the big boys, they need to go to a unit where they don't have to do the same physical activity and do great work as personnel bubbas in a rear-rear unit, or a unit that is more static. Plenty of garrison support and PSB positions for them.
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One standard is fine with me... I would love to be able to grow a long luxurious mane of hair...
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Michael Hasbun
Then when you let it down the guys can say, "You have hair!" and you can wonder what they thought that bun on the back of your head was.....
Then when you let it down the guys can say, "You have hair!" and you can wonder what they thought that bun on the back of your head was.....
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