Posted on Apr 30, 2014
At what point do we revamp "basic Soldier skills"?
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I'm certainly not saying to completely eradicate the traditional basic skills.
I'm saying at what point do we update and modernize things like land nav and comms etc.?
I ask because I thought we trained with the intent to fight so why am I teaching troops how to use a compass if I've never been issued a compass in garrison or down range? So even if I do get lost, I won't have a compass to help me.
Why aren't we training on Blue Force Tracker just as much as radios?
Why do we consider rucking a basic training event for all Soldiers when the majority of us are mechanized? If you know you're not rucking anywhere, why do it?
Cavalrymen don't train on horses anymore because they don't fight the enemy on horseback so why do we conduct antiquated training? Why don't we revamp basic Soldier skills so we actually train as we fight?
I've only been in five years so I sincerely ask these questions humbly. My perspective is limited to what I've experienced so I'd really like to hear from those with more experience and a broader perspective.
I'm saying at what point do we update and modernize things like land nav and comms etc.?
I ask because I thought we trained with the intent to fight so why am I teaching troops how to use a compass if I've never been issued a compass in garrison or down range? So even if I do get lost, I won't have a compass to help me.
Why aren't we training on Blue Force Tracker just as much as radios?
Why do we consider rucking a basic training event for all Soldiers when the majority of us are mechanized? If you know you're not rucking anywhere, why do it?
Cavalrymen don't train on horses anymore because they don't fight the enemy on horseback so why do we conduct antiquated training? Why don't we revamp basic Soldier skills so we actually train as we fight?
I've only been in five years so I sincerely ask these questions humbly. My perspective is limited to what I've experienced so I'd really like to hear from those with more experience and a broader perspective.
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 25
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I'm afraid doctrine and training are updated and revised at the speed of smell...
On behalf of myself ( since I can't speak for a whole organization the size of TRADOC), I sincerely apologize for any irrelevant training you may have recieved or time of yours that you'll never get back..
Just know that it's all being worked on, and you should see some results by approximately May 7th, 2072.
*Quick update* Due to a recent FRAGO that mandates all Powerpoint presentations be reformatted with a new font, I'm afraid all progress has been halted until we hire 82,000 more civilians.
On behalf of myself ( since I can't speak for a whole organization the size of TRADOC), I sincerely apologize for any irrelevant training you may have recieved or time of yours that you'll never get back..
Just know that it's all being worked on, and you should see some results by approximately May 7th, 2072.
*Quick update* Due to a recent FRAGO that mandates all Powerpoint presentations be reformatted with a new font, I'm afraid all progress has been halted until we hire 82,000 more civilians.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Hahaha roger that SSG Hasbun! You're right it's just so frustrating when Soldiers ask me during STT how often I used some of these skills I'm force feeding them and I have to respond with "well…never."
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SPC Charles Brown
SSG V. Michelle Woods:
I was never trained to use any type of GPS so when it came time to train someone else on how to use the earliest versions of this particular piece of equipment I pulled out my compass and proceeded to teach the land navigation class the best way I knew how. I returned the device to it's appointed resting place and trained them on how to properly use the compass to get from point A to point B without getting lost due to technical difficulties with modern technology getting in the way.
I feel your pain.
C.
I was never trained to use any type of GPS so when it came time to train someone else on how to use the earliest versions of this particular piece of equipment I pulled out my compass and proceeded to teach the land navigation class the best way I knew how. I returned the device to it's appointed resting place and trained them on how to properly use the compass to get from point A to point B without getting lost due to technical difficulties with modern technology getting in the way.
I feel your pain.
C.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SPC Charles Brown I've missed you my friend!
I must say that if my leader can't train me on proper use of our equipment then that's a fail on his or her part. If an NCO knows how to do basic land nav but has no knowledge of the blue force tracker, then he or she is not remaining tactically and technically proficient, as the NCO Creed demands ;)
I must say that if my leader can't train me on proper use of our equipment then that's a fail on his or her part. If an NCO knows how to do basic land nav but has no knowledge of the blue force tracker, then he or she is not remaining tactically and technically proficient, as the NCO Creed demands ;)
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SSG Woods,
You just got me fired up! Is revamping basic Soldier skills important? YES, but I lean the other way. As an Infantry leader, I lean heavily on basic Soldier skills every day! I navigate outside the wire with a plain old map and compass all the time! Of course I have a GPS to assist, but that doesn't cut it when you're directing CCA/CAS/or indirect fires. Sure non-combat MOSs don't need the same level of proficiency, but my fear is when we get into a real conventional fight, there won’t be FOBs to hide on, everyone must be ready to fight and defend themselves and their buddies. IMTs, old school land nav, radios and marksmanship ETC are life savers.
Great discussion!
-Justin
You just got me fired up! Is revamping basic Soldier skills important? YES, but I lean the other way. As an Infantry leader, I lean heavily on basic Soldier skills every day! I navigate outside the wire with a plain old map and compass all the time! Of course I have a GPS to assist, but that doesn't cut it when you're directing CCA/CAS/or indirect fires. Sure non-combat MOSs don't need the same level of proficiency, but my fear is when we get into a real conventional fight, there won’t be FOBs to hide on, everyone must be ready to fight and defend themselves and their buddies. IMTs, old school land nav, radios and marksmanship ETC are life savers.
Great discussion!
-Justin
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Lol alright sir, I know how you infantrymen love this stuff and that's why I said revamp, not eradicate.
I'm a photojournalist; I went outside the wire all the time throughout Iraq and Afghanistan so I understand the importance of the basics. I'm just suggesting we also become as proficient on other things we use more frequently down range. It seems as if we train more vigorously on the "just in case" stuff like rucking and compasses rather than the primary stuff like BFT and how to drive an MRAP and MAXPRO in case the driver gets shot.
Shouldn't it be 50/50 training?
I'm a photojournalist; I went outside the wire all the time throughout Iraq and Afghanistan so I understand the importance of the basics. I'm just suggesting we also become as proficient on other things we use more frequently down range. It seems as if we train more vigorously on the "just in case" stuff like rucking and compasses rather than the primary stuff like BFT and how to drive an MRAP and MAXPRO in case the driver gets shot.
Shouldn't it be 50/50 training?
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1LT (Join to see)
I certainly agree that emphasis should be placed on systems we use overseas. These are also the systems that change the most frequently, tho. BFT has evolved into C-POFF, HMMWVs became MRAPs, MRAPs became MAT-Vs, MAT-Vs became MAXPROS and RGs. No EW systems turned into THORS and DUKES. Technology will always change, and we should make sure we are ready to operate the latest systems and be certified at CTC prior to a combat rotation, but a map and compass will always be a map and compass.
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SGT Anthony Rossi
I do agree with the fact the equipment fails, and you should no how to live without google or a smart phone. My son and I still use a military compass when we hike through the mountains of Ca. But the training needs to fit the mission otherwise it undermines the soldiers confidence in there leaders purpose.
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Ultimately, its why we still teach celestial navigation and horizontal sextant positioning in the seagoing services, Because Technology WILL FAIL! The back up system to a Hospital Electronic record is the paper file, Back up to GPS is compass and topo-map, All electrical components are susceptible to EMP, whether natural from sun spots or man-made through NucDet, Very few systems are TEMPEST hardened, so we train on lowest common denominator which is our failsafe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening
Radiation hardening - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Radiation hardening is the act of making electronic components and systems resistant to damage or malfunctions caused by ionizing radiation (particle radiation and high-energy electromagnetic radiation),[1] such as those encountered in outer space and high-altitude flight, around nuclear reactors and particle accelerators, or during nuclear accidents or nuclear warfare.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Gentlemen I hate to say this but we weren't allowed to have personally owned weapons down range (when I was there) so even if I did buy a knife, I wasn't allowed to use it for protection. They even told me I couldn't have my can of mace!
However that is a good point LTC Stoneking about just buying a cheap one for training purposes. I'll go do that while looking for ones I can sign for.
MAJ Woods, that is FANTASTIC haha!!!!
However that is a good point LTC Stoneking about just buying a cheap one for training purposes. I'll go do that while looking for ones I can sign for.
MAJ Woods, that is FANTASTIC haha!!!!
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SFC (Join to see)
I can't say as I've seen the Personally owned weapons restriction in combat applied to knives, perhaps I should request my bayonet be issued to me.
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Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn
Marines commonly carry personal knives, especially Ka-Bars (I still have mine & love it). There should be no restriction on personally owned knives or mace in combat environments.
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SPC Charles Brown
SSG V. Michelle Woods, are you picking on us supply people? I bet if went and asked your unit supply specialist (clerk, not sergeant) he could find you a compass that is bright and shiny, formerly issued to some young well meaning 2nd LT who never used it and was constantly sending out the radio call of LLMF Over. lol
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