Posted on Nov 22, 2013
Why do other branches claim to be just like the Infantry?
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I can't help to hear most other branches (MOSs) claim to be just like the Infantry. I had the worst experience of this when dealing with MPs. Many receive combat training and feel like they are pretty much infantry and go about claiming they are pretty much the same.
I have a serious issue with this for many reasons. I am Infantry but I am not taking anything away from other soldiers. But it seems like they want to be something else than what they are. So they claim they do their job and can do infantry also. I would often ask them the Principles of Patroling or how to set up a Platoon Patrol Base just wait for the blank stares. I might as well be speaking Greek. Those are infantry tasks. What they learned were soldiers skills and common tasks, not infantry training. I can set up a radio but that does not make me Signal. I still need that Signal soldier. Defending yourself or your base is not primarily an infantry task.
Now along with other branches of the military we each have our role. I, as an infantry officer, need MPs to process detainees and Quartermasters to supply me with gear. I am not the Army. I am the Infantry. Together we are the Army and not an Army of one. Just so in case if anyone is wondering all of these pictures are US Army Infantry and are 11Bs. They show the diversity of the Infantry and their capabilities.
What are your experience with this in your MOS, just not infantry? Are you pretty much infantry?
(Now for some humor. Two officers were talking about their branch training. One was an Infantry officer and the other was an Armor officer. The Armor officer was telling the Infantry officer about his Infantry phase of his training and how he could do his job. Without missing a beat the Infantry officer says to the Armor officer "We also have an Armor phase in our training. We call it the Weekend."
I have a serious issue with this for many reasons. I am Infantry but I am not taking anything away from other soldiers. But it seems like they want to be something else than what they are. So they claim they do their job and can do infantry also. I would often ask them the Principles of Patroling or how to set up a Platoon Patrol Base just wait for the blank stares. I might as well be speaking Greek. Those are infantry tasks. What they learned were soldiers skills and common tasks, not infantry training. I can set up a radio but that does not make me Signal. I still need that Signal soldier. Defending yourself or your base is not primarily an infantry task.
Now along with other branches of the military we each have our role. I, as an infantry officer, need MPs to process detainees and Quartermasters to supply me with gear. I am not the Army. I am the Infantry. Together we are the Army and not an Army of one. Just so in case if anyone is wondering all of these pictures are US Army Infantry and are 11Bs. They show the diversity of the Infantry and their capabilities.
What are your experience with this in your MOS, just not infantry? Are you pretty much infantry?
(Now for some humor. Two officers were talking about their branch training. One was an Infantry officer and the other was an Armor officer. The Armor officer was telling the Infantry officer about his Infantry phase of his training and how he could do his job. Without missing a beat the Infantry officer says to the Armor officer "We also have an Armor phase in our training. We call it the Weekend."
Combat Arms
Combat Service Support
Service Support
Pride
Training
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 373
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I love sitting back and watching the combat MOS fight about this. Its like grade school all over again.
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SGT (Join to see)
Infantry for 7 years. 56M for 3. Most looks I got were from others wondering why I went that route. Confused gazes, my 11B brothers were mad that I left to be a pog. And pogs were shocked I stepped into their “world”. Lol. My chaplain and I were and are great friends. We helped a lot of soldiers and I’ll tell you the number one advantage to this. No other chaplain assistant would have been able to protect their chaplain as well as I could. My experience found chaplain assistants worrying if they were going to qualify at the range while I was still in 11B mind set, pissed for getting a 38 or 39. I think 56 mikes need to realize that their job is more than setting up a pew on the fob and doing paper work. You have to protect the chaplain, how can you do that if you have no clue what’s going on when you hop on that convoy and leave the gate. I guess my point is. I think it’s unbecoming is a 56M to make a snide comment on an infantry matter. Worry more how your going to pick up your chaplain and get him to safety when your convoy gets hit.
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SSG (Join to see)
Reclassed from infantry to 88M. While attending the 88M school, I was tasked to give a class on the M2 .50 cal. Apparently 88M NCOs who were the instructors didnt know a M2 from a mop handle. Sad, sad, sad. Infantry saved the day.
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One of the most significant differences between a leader in combat arms (Fister) and support (Signal) is task mastery. When I was a 13F I could accomplish any task I expected of a subordinate as well as they if not better. I could fire an AT-4, employ a claymore, conduct a sector sketch, construct a fire support execution matrix, conduct a SEAD fire mission, rapel and the list goes on. As a Signal officer I could never hope to accomplish the tasks I expect of my Soldiers; configure a router, design a SharePoint site, deconflict the electromagnetic spectrum, load crypto into myriad number of COMSEC devices, manage the COMSEC account, and the list goes on. Some of these tasks can take years to truly master. The rub is this, I will be evaluated by maneuver commanders who do not appreciate this dynamic as they were able to gain at least proficiency in the majority of tasks they were required to supervise. One does not expect the hospital administrator to come down perform specialized surgery and this is the challenge of managing a support branch that is ever expanding. By the way our goal is for everyone to be an engaged and proficient communicator.
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CPT Jim Kotva
Well written I went from Aviation to Signal Corp I understand what you wrote. The Infantry is awesome when you get into technical fields unless you are Albert Einstein it is impossible to be proficient in all realms of Signal. I deployed one time about 10 years ago was told go for it. I had no idea what I was doing I fumbled for a while till I figured out what I was doing.
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Capt Karlos Nordinsifeller
I don’t hesitate to point out that you are wrong. Shoot move and communicate? Sounds like the basic officer course in quantified. A necessary skill of every rifleman. Or every single Marine if you will. In the Corps every officer must complete infantry training to command at the company level. All marines must demonstrate leadership at the infantry squad level. This is prior to any training in a support field. This isn’t mastery anymore than an o311 getting certified in mine placement (1344r?), training as a sapper, certifying in breaching and advanced improvised explosives would make him an engineer. In fact as an 0321 I spent a lot of time studying bridge, road, tunnel and dock construction. As someone with a decade of enlisted and a decade of commissioned Tim in the infantry I can assure you that my subordinates could do their jobs better than I, and in many cases I would not be able to do their jobs. You may have a faint memory of how to time a .50, but I doubt you ever learned to clear the ghost round from a bushmaster chain gun. The kid that can run the dragonfly with finess may not be able to free climb a 5-10 and set a rope route, but I’m unable to do either. CPT (Join to see)
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Cpl Vic Eizenga
Capt Karlos Nordinsifeller - I know I am old Corps but in the 60's as an 0351 (Anti tank assault man) M20 rockets, 1911A1, and M14's. we were used where ever needed. I went to demo school to learn how to set explosives, disarm and set mines and clay-mores. back then we were part of a weapons platoon with in the grunt company. I learn Mortars, 60 and 80 MM 106's, flamethrowers. In Vietnam they even had me on a truck with a .50. Our job was learn what every one else know so we cold lead when needed. At one time I was a PFC gunner and Squad leader for Rockets.
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Capt Karlos Nordinsifeller
True- and as a 2nd LT I was capable of being an 03xx as well. But not proficient . On my second tour of oif we awarded 39 Purple Hearts out of 42 marines. Being so short I had to pull people from motor t, the postal marine, food service and intel. They were Marines, they acquitted themselves very well. No way I would drop them to be a stay behind abush, rarely did any of them take over a 50 MK-19, and when they did it was to sit behind, not to maintain, time, emplacement and load. They could help with the tow, predator, 60’s and 81’s but no way they could pick it up and decide a battle with it. And as you know with all the stuff the have to know there isn’t time to teach them what they need to know. Not to mention communication and recon have changed drastically for an infantry platoon. Marine Combat training helps with basic stuff, but not the common communication sets, crypto, navigation, and transportation that the average grin knows intimately. Spot reps, nine lines and cff were so essential we wrote them inside the windshields so the attached could remember them. Casrep is no time to learn the basic grunt stuff. It’s no question that lessons learned from your time inspired a renewed focus on individual skills in mine. Regardless, it is a myth that has been proven repeatedly that you can put a com sgt in charge of a rifle equal and expect anything more than reduced effectiveness. A smart sgt will make it work by using the squads skills, but it’s often better to give Tac/admin instructions.
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SFC James Baber
1LT William Clardy - That is true to a point but over 5 years, that is NOT the norm even for 1 weekend a month, I have seen enlisted move up 2-3 NCO ranks over that time and Officers go up at least 2 as well, so something is not copasetic on the promotion front for a hard charging Inf LT who was also a hard charging Inf NCO before commission.
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1LT William Clardy
Speaking from personal experience, SFC James Baber, sometimes hard-charging former NCOs excel at highlighting sensitive commissioned toes with their boots. Being colorful as a commissioned officer is more likely to grease the pole you're trying to climb than buy you traction. I'm not saying that this is an issue for CPT (Join to see), but thus are retired first lieutenants born...
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Maj John Bell
SSG Richard Hackwith - Give me armor unsupported by infantry in any terrain but the plains and I'll paint the armor pretty pastel colors and let my wife use the scrap as yard art. Send me into the plains without armor or air support and you'll grease your treads with my guts. Every horse has its place in the harness.
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