Posted on May 7, 2019
Trump pardons ex-Army lieutenant convicted of killing suspected Al Qaeda terrorist in 2009
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I've never been in combat, and I understand we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard, but I don't think we should be putting our SMs in prison over terrorist pieces of s**t. Agree to disagree, you won't change my mind...and no I don't think killing a terrorist whether they're wounded or not makes us even remotely close to what they are. PFC (Join to see) SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG(P) James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth PVT James Strait SSG (Join to see) Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish
Trump pardons ex-Army lieutenant convicted of killing suspected Al Qaeda terrorist in 2009
Posted from foxnews.com
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Donald Trump
Terrorism
Punishment
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 18
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SSG(P) (Join to see) I disagree with your general premise, and here is why:
It has very little to do with the "bad guy," and a whole lot to do with our "good guys." We are a nation of laws. This is doubly true for our military. We don't let people pick which laws they want to follow, or which situations they get to ignore those laws in. Again, this is doubly true for the military. I don't care whether the guy this LT killed was a 3month old baby or Bin Laden himself, if he clearly violated the law, he needs to be held to account for it, or else it tells everyone else that the law is subject to personal interpretation, and isn't necessarily applicable if you feel like you want to ignore it.
As to the specific circumstances of this case, I disagree with the pardon. According to the facts as related by the news story, a pardon was not warranted for this LT. He was falsely convicted of a crime, which warrants an exoneration. While the two have the same effect, they have different implications and meanings.
Trump has effectively done two things with this pardon, both bad. He had given the military justice system a good, convenient rug to start sweeping. LT is pardoned - no harm no foul, right? He has also sent the message that UCMJ isn't really important, as long as you can get public support for breaking the law.
TL;DR version: It's not the specifics, it's the overall message.
It has very little to do with the "bad guy," and a whole lot to do with our "good guys." We are a nation of laws. This is doubly true for our military. We don't let people pick which laws they want to follow, or which situations they get to ignore those laws in. Again, this is doubly true for the military. I don't care whether the guy this LT killed was a 3month old baby or Bin Laden himself, if he clearly violated the law, he needs to be held to account for it, or else it tells everyone else that the law is subject to personal interpretation, and isn't necessarily applicable if you feel like you want to ignore it.
As to the specific circumstances of this case, I disagree with the pardon. According to the facts as related by the news story, a pardon was not warranted for this LT. He was falsely convicted of a crime, which warrants an exoneration. While the two have the same effect, they have different implications and meanings.
Trump has effectively done two things with this pardon, both bad. He had given the military justice system a good, convenient rug to start sweeping. LT is pardoned - no harm no foul, right? He has also sent the message that UCMJ isn't really important, as long as you can get public support for breaking the law.
TL;DR version: It's not the specifics, it's the overall message.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Can you expand more on how he was falsely convicted of a crime?
Unfortunately for 1LT Behenna, his accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.
Unfortunately for 1LT Behenna, his accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
PO1 (Join to see) According to the article, the prosecution withheld exonerating evidence and the jury was given incorrect jury instructions. This means his conviction came under false pretenses within the strictures of our legal system.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
CPT Gregory Hafera - Pardon and exoneration are two different things. Pardon says (in short) "You are guilty, but we won't hold it against you." Exoneration says (in short) "You were never guilty in the first place, we're sorry we said you were." Trump pardoned the LT, he was not exonerated.
I don't believe executives have the power to exonerate, I think only the judicial branch does, but I may be mistaken in that.
I would argue that pardons exist more for healing than addressing injustice. The JUSTICE system is where injustice is addressed. Pardons are for moving past something. The best example I can think of for this is Ford's pardon of Nixon. Ford absolutely did not say that Nixon was in the right, or that he was being unfairly persecuted. He essentially just wanted America to move past the scandal and begin to recover from it - not to mention trying to restore some semblance of faith and credibility within the Oval.
I don't believe executives have the power to exonerate, I think only the judicial branch does, but I may be mistaken in that.
I would argue that pardons exist more for healing than addressing injustice. The JUSTICE system is where injustice is addressed. Pardons are for moving past something. The best example I can think of for this is Ford's pardon of Nixon. Ford absolutely did not say that Nixon was in the right, or that he was being unfairly persecuted. He essentially just wanted America to move past the scandal and begin to recover from it - not to mention trying to restore some semblance of faith and credibility within the Oval.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
PVT James Strait - Even in WWII we still treated our POWs better than the "other guys." Also, remember that the entire reason that countries convened at the Hague in Geneva after WWII was because we saw what had happened to POWs and wanted to ensure it never happened again. The U.S. was one of the most vocal supporters of the conventions and of getting all nations to sign on to them. POWs NEVER deserve to be summarily executed without due process, regardless of what they are ACCUSED of.
I have spent more than 15 years as an intelligence professional. I will let you in on a deep, dark secret. Sometimes..... every once in a while..... completely unexpectedly...... just sometimes, mind you...... the intel is WRONG. Unless that LT watched the guy pull a trigger, a bullet fly out of the muzzle of the weapon on which a trigger had just been pulled, and watched that bullet impact a human being (or he watched the guy pull a trip wire /command wire we the LT himself traced to a detonation, or similar), the LT does not have PROOF that the guy is a terrorist. And even in the first case (trigger puller) there are reasons OTHER THAN terrorism to pull that trigger (which the LT himself can attest to, having pulled a trigger). Without having PROOF that the guy is a terrorist, killing him after he has been captured (and without extenuating circumstances) is a violation of both international and US law, as well as professional ethics, human decency, and moral character.
Now.... according to the article, he was acting in self defense, which I will not quibble with, nor attempt to condemn. This would provide the extenuating circumstances mentioned above. In this specific set of circumstances - at least as presented by the article (which certainly does not contain all or even most of the evidence of the case - the article actually fails to provide even one piece of condemning evidence, of which there is surely some, seeing as how the LT WAS convicted) - I support the LTs right of self-defense in killing this particular suspected terrorist. But NOT because he was a terrorist and deserved to die. ONLY because the individual (apparently) attacked the LT and was trying to take the LTs weapon.
I am a very strong advocate of complete and total war. I believe the ROE we have operated under in both Afghanistan and Iraq have left our Soldiers more exposed than necessary and led to unnecessary deaths of US servicemembers. I believe our unwillingness to truly commit to war has prolonged these occupations far beyond the necessary duration. I believe trying to make the military do diplomacy is a horrible idea - we are there to fight and win our nation's wars, not to win hearts and minds. But DESPITE all of that, I believe that advocating for scorched earth philosophy and for completely disregarding civilian casualties, human decency, and international law (such as the treaty signed in 1949 at the third convention at the Hague in Geneva, Switzerland - this treaty is commonly referred to (incorrectly) as the "the third Geneva Convention" ) is an even greater folly than the theory of warriors as diplomats.
I have spent more than 15 years as an intelligence professional. I will let you in on a deep, dark secret. Sometimes..... every once in a while..... completely unexpectedly...... just sometimes, mind you...... the intel is WRONG. Unless that LT watched the guy pull a trigger, a bullet fly out of the muzzle of the weapon on which a trigger had just been pulled, and watched that bullet impact a human being (or he watched the guy pull a trip wire /command wire we the LT himself traced to a detonation, or similar), the LT does not have PROOF that the guy is a terrorist. And even in the first case (trigger puller) there are reasons OTHER THAN terrorism to pull that trigger (which the LT himself can attest to, having pulled a trigger). Without having PROOF that the guy is a terrorist, killing him after he has been captured (and without extenuating circumstances) is a violation of both international and US law, as well as professional ethics, human decency, and moral character.
Now.... according to the article, he was acting in self defense, which I will not quibble with, nor attempt to condemn. This would provide the extenuating circumstances mentioned above. In this specific set of circumstances - at least as presented by the article (which certainly does not contain all or even most of the evidence of the case - the article actually fails to provide even one piece of condemning evidence, of which there is surely some, seeing as how the LT WAS convicted) - I support the LTs right of self-defense in killing this particular suspected terrorist. But NOT because he was a terrorist and deserved to die. ONLY because the individual (apparently) attacked the LT and was trying to take the LTs weapon.
I am a very strong advocate of complete and total war. I believe the ROE we have operated under in both Afghanistan and Iraq have left our Soldiers more exposed than necessary and led to unnecessary deaths of US servicemembers. I believe our unwillingness to truly commit to war has prolonged these occupations far beyond the necessary duration. I believe trying to make the military do diplomacy is a horrible idea - we are there to fight and win our nation's wars, not to win hearts and minds. But DESPITE all of that, I believe that advocating for scorched earth philosophy and for completely disregarding civilian casualties, human decency, and international law (such as the treaty signed in 1949 at the third convention at the Hague in Geneva, Switzerland - this treaty is commonly referred to (incorrectly) as the "the third Geneva Convention" ) is an even greater folly than the theory of warriors as diplomats.
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My friend SSG(P) (Join to see) I am thankful that President Donald Trump pardoned former Army 1st Lt. Michael Behenna, who was convicted in 2009 of killing an Iraqi prisoner.
That being said, I concur with the point made by SFC Casey O'Mally. Our strengths as a nation include ingenuity, perseverance, and generally honorable behavior even in unimaginable circumstances. This is in large part because we have a Constitution which focuses on our responsibilities and urges us to be law-abiding.
"President Donald Trump has pardoned a former U.S. soldier convicted in 2009 of killing an Iraqi prisoner, the White House announced Monday.
Trump signed an executive grant of clemency, a full pardon, for former Army 1st Lt. Michael Behenna, of Oklahoma, press secretary Sarah Sanders said.
Behenna was convicted of unpremeditated murder in a combat zone after killing a suspected al-Qaida terrorist in Iraq. He was paroled in 2014 and had been scheduled to remain on parole until 2024.
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A military court had sentenced Behenna to 25 years in prison. However, the Army's highest appellate court noted concern about how the trial court had handled Behenna's claim of self-defense, Sanders said. The Army Clemency and Parole Board also reduced his sentence to 15 years and paroled him as soon as he was eligible.
Behenna's case attracted broad support from the military, Oklahoma elected officials and the public, Sanders said. She added that Behenna was a model prisoner while serving his sentence, and "in light of these facts, Mr. Behenna is entirely deserving" of the pardon.
Oklahoma's two Republican senators, James Lankford and Jim Inhofe, hailed the pardon, thanking Trump for giving Behenna "a clean slate."
Behenna acknowledged during his trial that instead of taking the prisoner home as he was ordered, he took the man to a railroad culvert, stripped him, and then questioned him at gunpoint about a roadside bombing that had killed two members of Behenna's platoon.
Behenna, a native of the Oklahoma City suburb of Edmond, said the man moved toward him and he shot him because Behenna thought he would try to take his gun.
Oklahoma's attorney general first requested a pardon for Behenna in February 2018 and renewed his request last month. Attorney General Mike Hunter said he believed Behenna's conviction was unjustified because of erroneous jury instructions and the failure of prosecutors to turn over evidence supporting a self-defense claim."
What do you think? LTC John Shaw COL Mikel J. Burroughs Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. SGT (Join to see) PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
LTC Stephan PorterSPC Diana RodriguezCPT (Join to see) MSgt David HoffmanSafir RahndomSgt (Join to see)SFC (Join to see)cmsgt-rickey-denickeSGT Forrest FitzrandolphCWO3 Dave AlcantaraSPC Robert Gilhuly1sg-dan-capri SPC Margaret Higgins
That being said, I concur with the point made by SFC Casey O'Mally. Our strengths as a nation include ingenuity, perseverance, and generally honorable behavior even in unimaginable circumstances. This is in large part because we have a Constitution which focuses on our responsibilities and urges us to be law-abiding.
"President Donald Trump has pardoned a former U.S. soldier convicted in 2009 of killing an Iraqi prisoner, the White House announced Monday.
Trump signed an executive grant of clemency, a full pardon, for former Army 1st Lt. Michael Behenna, of Oklahoma, press secretary Sarah Sanders said.
Behenna was convicted of unpremeditated murder in a combat zone after killing a suspected al-Qaida terrorist in Iraq. He was paroled in 2014 and had been scheduled to remain on parole until 2024.
Content Continues Below
A military court had sentenced Behenna to 25 years in prison. However, the Army's highest appellate court noted concern about how the trial court had handled Behenna's claim of self-defense, Sanders said. The Army Clemency and Parole Board also reduced his sentence to 15 years and paroled him as soon as he was eligible.
Behenna's case attracted broad support from the military, Oklahoma elected officials and the public, Sanders said. She added that Behenna was a model prisoner while serving his sentence, and "in light of these facts, Mr. Behenna is entirely deserving" of the pardon.
Oklahoma's two Republican senators, James Lankford and Jim Inhofe, hailed the pardon, thanking Trump for giving Behenna "a clean slate."
Behenna acknowledged during his trial that instead of taking the prisoner home as he was ordered, he took the man to a railroad culvert, stripped him, and then questioned him at gunpoint about a roadside bombing that had killed two members of Behenna's platoon.
Behenna, a native of the Oklahoma City suburb of Edmond, said the man moved toward him and he shot him because Behenna thought he would try to take his gun.
Oklahoma's attorney general first requested a pardon for Behenna in February 2018 and renewed his request last month. Attorney General Mike Hunter said he believed Behenna's conviction was unjustified because of erroneous jury instructions and the failure of prosecutors to turn over evidence supporting a self-defense claim."
What do you think? LTC John Shaw COL Mikel J. Burroughs Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. SGT (Join to see) PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
LTC Stephan PorterSPC Diana RodriguezCPT (Join to see) MSgt David HoffmanSafir RahndomSgt (Join to see)SFC (Join to see)cmsgt-rickey-denickeSGT Forrest FitzrandolphCWO3 Dave AlcantaraSPC Robert Gilhuly1sg-dan-capri SPC Margaret Higgins
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
The Lt. May have not passed the smell test according to 1SGT Capri.
The Lt’s tfial was handled wrong and the appeals court corrected the sitrep in this miscarriage of Justice and the Lt has a clean slate now..
He can now go forward and live his life. Hooah for the Lt. !
The Lt’s tfial was handled wrong and the appeals court corrected the sitrep in this miscarriage of Justice and the Lt has a clean slate now..
He can now go forward and live his life. Hooah for the Lt. !
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