Posted on Dec 10, 2022
The king is dead: Why would America want to retire the F-22?
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Edited 2 y ago
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 3
The F-22 Raptor is still widely considered to be the most capable air superiority fighter on the planet, but it’s slated for retirement in the 2030s. Here’s why:
The F-22 was canceled after just 186 airframes were delivered and large portions of its production line were then used for the F-35, making building new Raptors all but impossible.
The F-22’s design and avionics are increasingly dated. The cost of modernizing it for the decades to come would be untenable (and still wouldn’t solve all of its problems).
The F-22 will be replaced by a new fighter being developed in the Next Generation Air Dominance Program.
The F-22 is being retired sooner than older jets because of its small numbers and high cost of operation.
(The first and last reasons make the most sense to me)
The F-22 was canceled after just 186 airframes were delivered and large portions of its production line were then used for the F-35, making building new Raptors all but impossible.
The F-22’s design and avionics are increasingly dated. The cost of modernizing it for the decades to come would be untenable (and still wouldn’t solve all of its problems).
The F-22 will be replaced by a new fighter being developed in the Next Generation Air Dominance Program.
The F-22 is being retired sooner than older jets because of its small numbers and high cost of operation.
(The first and last reasons make the most sense to me)
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Maj Robert Thornton
To be honest, I would rather keep the F-22 and get rid of the F-35 Lt Col Charlie Brown.
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SPC Bill Bailey
Maj Robert Thornton - The F-35 despite is problems is a far more capable airplane than the F-22. The problem is there aren't enough F-22s to go with the F-35s, so we build more F-15 to act as missile trucks to carry the load the F-35 can't. The latest numbers I can find are from 2015, there are 150 combat capable F-22s left in service, the others are used for training and are about to be retired. They cost just over $15,000 per flying hour to operate each in maint. costs. There was talk of restarting the prod. line, but since some of the tooling was destroyed on purpose, having to rebuild it, find new vendors, training new workers etc. new airplanes wouldn't have been on the line until about 2030 at the soonest, all of this for an airplane design that's already 32 years old. It's still a great airplane, but it's time is coming to an end. We need a replacement for it and soon.
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Maj Robert Thornton
Currently the F-35 cost approx $30,000 per flight hour SPC Bill Bailey. They are trying to get it down to $25,000/flight hour by 2025. It seems to me we need to build mission capable aircraft with lower operating costs, IMHO.
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SPC Bill Bailey
Maj Robert Thornton - Oh, I agree 100%, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Modern aircraft, esp. Fighters are Maint. intensive even with all the self diagnostics. The Low Viz paint/materials used need constant upkeep and it's very labor intensive for one thing. Another is the constant manpower/parts shortage. Ground crews are worked near to death keeping what airplanes they can mission ready, the contractor overtime hours are unbelievable. Parts shortages have been an ongoing problem for years, Congress doesn't allow enough $$ to purchase enough to start with, contracts are cancelled/cut off and vendors go under. So parts that were part of the original contract can lo longer be found and a new source must found at a higher cost. Congress and the Military HAS to stop thinking about aircraft procurement like buying a car, it doesn't work like that, you can't go to Auto Zone and pick up spare parts for an F-35. You need a long term parts train from a steady vendor base. That would be one way to slightly lower the per flying hour cost of ops. But the more zoot electronic gee whiz shit you add to it, the more it's going to cost and the more $$ per flight hour to maintain. The sad thing is we NEED more zoot shit to stay ahead of the game. It's a never ending spiral.
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"You have to empty the cup first, before you fill it", Ancient Chinese secret.
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Because it's as big a maint. hog as the F-14 was for 1 thing. As for building new ones, that's not going to happen. The tooling was destroyed for most of the airplane just to keep that from happening. Congress didn't want to spend any more on it, the "Peace Dividend" ya know.
The NGAD is going to take years to develop and cost even more than the F-35 by a mile.
Don't hold your breath waiting for it, last I heard the program was on hold. They're going to build more F-15s and F-16s instead while they spend even more $$$$ on developing super techy stuff that will cost a fortune and cause endless headaches down the road. Same for the unmanned or "Loyal Wingman" aircraft program, not developed far enough yet, so it's on hold. So we continue to build some F-35s that still can't fully fill all the roles they were designed to do, and more 4th Gen. Fighters while China is building more 5th Gen. and working 6th Gen. and we don't have enough butts to fill the seats of the ones we have. I'll be shocked if they build half as many B-21s as they say they want. We are no longer the World Power we once were, we have given it all away on social programs and foreign aid instead of National Defense. This WILL come home to bite us in the ass one day.
The NGAD is going to take years to develop and cost even more than the F-35 by a mile.
Don't hold your breath waiting for it, last I heard the program was on hold. They're going to build more F-15s and F-16s instead while they spend even more $$$$ on developing super techy stuff that will cost a fortune and cause endless headaches down the road. Same for the unmanned or "Loyal Wingman" aircraft program, not developed far enough yet, so it's on hold. So we continue to build some F-35s that still can't fully fill all the roles they were designed to do, and more 4th Gen. Fighters while China is building more 5th Gen. and working 6th Gen. and we don't have enough butts to fill the seats of the ones we have. I'll be shocked if they build half as many B-21s as they say they want. We are no longer the World Power we once were, we have given it all away on social programs and foreign aid instead of National Defense. This WILL come home to bite us in the ass one day.
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