5
5
0
Some people have been downplaying what happened on January 6th. To find out how serious this was for some members of the crowd, we should look at the charging documents. Here are some excepts when it comes to a group of Oathkeepers in the crowd. It answers a very important question on if some of the people who broke into Congress where trying to capture members of Congress. Yes, yes they were and they come there specifically to do it.
"Law enforcement and news-media organizations observed that members of an organization known as the Oath Keepers were among the individuals and groups who forcibly
entered the Capitol on January 6, 2021. "
"Caldwell, who lives in Virginia, provided logistical assistance, including finding the hotel in Northern Virginia where several members of the conspiracy stayed from January 5
through 7, 2021. Caldwell further coordinated with a group of co-conspirators who agreed to serve as a “quick reaction force” (“QRF”) to monitor the attack at the Capitol from a distance and be prepared to travel to the Capitol in the event they were called upon, possibly while armed.
Caldwell also provided maps informing the QRF team how to most effectively reach the Capitol
from their staging area. "
"On December 31, 2020, Kelly Meggs wrote a series of messages to another person on Facebook that said, “You guys Gonna carry?” and “Ok we aren’t either, we have a heavy QRF3 10 Min out though.”"
"At the approximate 5-minute mark, the voice believed to be Watkins reports,
“We have a good group. We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together
and sticking to the plan.” An individual responds, “We’ll see you soon, Jess. Airborne.” "
"At the approximate 7-minute-and-44-second mark, an unknown male states,
“You are executing citizen’s arrest. Arrest this assembly, we have probable cause for acts of treason, election fraud.” The voice believed to be Watkins responds, “We are in the mezzanine. We are in the main dome right now. We are rocking it. They are throwing grenades, they are fricking shooting people with paint balls. But we are in here.” An individual responds to Watkins, telling her to be safe, and states, “Get it, Jess. Do your fucking thing. This is what we fucking [unintelligible] up for. Everything we fucking trained for.” "
"Talked to [Person Three].5 At least one full bus 40+ people coming from N.C. Another group (unclear if Mississippi guys) also a bus. Busses have their own lane on the 14th street bridge so they will be able to get in and out. "
"On January 6, 2021, while at the Capitol, Caldwell received the following Facebook
message: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas.” When Caldwell posted a Facebook message that read, “Inside,” he received the following messages, among others: “Tom take that bitch over”; “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down”; “Do like we had to do when I was in the core start tearing oit florrs go from top to bottom”; and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.”"
"Law enforcement and news-media organizations observed that members of an organization known as the Oath Keepers were among the individuals and groups who forcibly
entered the Capitol on January 6, 2021. "
"Caldwell, who lives in Virginia, provided logistical assistance, including finding the hotel in Northern Virginia where several members of the conspiracy stayed from January 5
through 7, 2021. Caldwell further coordinated with a group of co-conspirators who agreed to serve as a “quick reaction force” (“QRF”) to monitor the attack at the Capitol from a distance and be prepared to travel to the Capitol in the event they were called upon, possibly while armed.
Caldwell also provided maps informing the QRF team how to most effectively reach the Capitol
from their staging area. "
"On December 31, 2020, Kelly Meggs wrote a series of messages to another person on Facebook that said, “You guys Gonna carry?” and “Ok we aren’t either, we have a heavy QRF3 10 Min out though.”"
"At the approximate 5-minute mark, the voice believed to be Watkins reports,
“We have a good group. We have about 30-40 of us. We are sticking together
and sticking to the plan.” An individual responds, “We’ll see you soon, Jess. Airborne.” "
"At the approximate 7-minute-and-44-second mark, an unknown male states,
“You are executing citizen’s arrest. Arrest this assembly, we have probable cause for acts of treason, election fraud.” The voice believed to be Watkins responds, “We are in the mezzanine. We are in the main dome right now. We are rocking it. They are throwing grenades, they are fricking shooting people with paint balls. But we are in here.” An individual responds to Watkins, telling her to be safe, and states, “Get it, Jess. Do your fucking thing. This is what we fucking [unintelligible] up for. Everything we fucking trained for.” "
"Talked to [Person Three].5 At least one full bus 40+ people coming from N.C. Another group (unclear if Mississippi guys) also a bus. Busses have their own lane on the 14th street bridge so they will be able to get in and out. "
"On January 6, 2021, while at the Capitol, Caldwell received the following Facebook
message: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas.” When Caldwell posted a Facebook message that read, “Inside,” he received the following messages, among others: “Tom take that bitch over”; “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down”; “Do like we had to do when I was in the core start tearing oit florrs go from top to bottom”; and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.”"
download
Posted from justice.gov
Election 2020
Donald Trump
Riots
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 4
1
1
0
The FBI found there was no wide spread coordination among the rioters. How can you have an insurrection with a mob? Now with some encouragement and a crowd mentality you can get people to do things but you can not over throw a government or an election with out plans to contain the capital, block government forces, I.e. police, active military, and national guard, control federal communications etc. NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE PRESENT. Of course an FBI investigation involving several months showed nothing but I have very little respect for the FBI after the IG findings on the Trump collusion Hoax. Despite my disdain for the FBI I simply see no bases for a charge of insurrection. Now I find what went on reprehensible and in the same vein as the riots we had all summer preceding the election. Those riots were far more damaging and violent and showed a degree of coordination on a higher level than the DC riot. https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/568719-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-jan-6-attack-was-coordinated-reuters
FBI finds scant evidence Jan. 6 attack was coordinated: Reuters
TheFBI has found little evidence at this point to suggest that the Jan.
(1)
(0)
SPC Kevin Ford
LTC David Brown No widespread coordination doesn't mean there wasn't coordination within members of the crowd. That's what this case is about.
You stated:
"Now with some encouragement and a crowd mentality you can get people to do things but you can not over throw a government or an election with out plans to contain the capital, block government forces, I.e. police, active military, and national guard, control federal communications etc. NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE PRESENT"
Yes they were, in the person of Trump. If they could stop the election from being certified by sequestering members of Congress, the current guy who controls all of that would still be in some control, even if contested. Also, if they intimidated Pence into doing what they wanted him to (lack of Constitutionality wouldn't matter) a large portion of the public would believe Trump won and based on Trump's past he would have used that opportunity to say he won and try to retain power. Morals, ethics and laws never constrained that guy all that much.
I'll ask you the same question I asked elsewhere. These guys were charged with conspiracy. Conspiracy to do what exactly?
You stated:
"Now with some encouragement and a crowd mentality you can get people to do things but you can not over throw a government or an election with out plans to contain the capital, block government forces, I.e. police, active military, and national guard, control federal communications etc. NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE PRESENT"
Yes they were, in the person of Trump. If they could stop the election from being certified by sequestering members of Congress, the current guy who controls all of that would still be in some control, even if contested. Also, if they intimidated Pence into doing what they wanted him to (lack of Constitutionality wouldn't matter) a large portion of the public would believe Trump won and based on Trump's past he would have used that opportunity to say he won and try to retain power. Morals, ethics and laws never constrained that guy all that much.
I'll ask you the same question I asked elsewhere. These guys were charged with conspiracy. Conspiracy to do what exactly?
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
Why are these the only charges? Why no conspiracy to overthrow the government? Or to kidnap or murder anyone?
If they're going after these guys, why aren't they working on the guy who was putting pipe bombs around the Capitol? There's plenty of videos showing him doing so.
Or Ray Epps, who is clearly shown encouraging people to go into the Capitol building? Why did the FBI take him off their "most wanted" list and why is he still out walking around?
If they're going after these guys, why aren't they working on the guy who was putting pipe bombs around the Capitol? There's plenty of videos showing him doing so.
Or Ray Epps, who is clearly shown encouraging people to go into the Capitol building? Why did the FBI take him off their "most wanted" list and why is he still out walking around?
(1)
(0)
SPC Kevin Ford
SPC Kevin Ford - I assume you are talking about this claim and the National Guard. I find it "funny" that Trump constantly lies and his supports excuse it as no one taking those seriously. Well except when it's convenient to believe him and it hasn't been disproved yet.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/02/donald-trump/no-proof-trump-requested-10000-guard-troops-jan-6-/
That's all you got is the guy who constantly lies word. Despite people on January 6th begging him to try and call of his supporters. That we do know happened.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/02/donald-trump/no-proof-trump-requested-10000-guard-troops-jan-6-/
That's all you got is the guy who constantly lies word. Despite people on January 6th begging him to try and call of his supporters. That we do know happened.
PolitiFact - No proof Trump requested 10,000 Guard troops for Jan. 6 or that Pelosi denied it
Asked in an interview about the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, former President Donald Trump claimed that he had mad
(0)
(0)
Sgt (Join to see)
SPC Kevin Ford - It almost feels like they were obstructed from coming to the capitol's aid. I wonder who would have benefitted from that?
Mayor Bowser emphatically turned down requests for the National Guard to deploy ahead of time. Her signed letter is viewable online.
Even Newsweek (not exactly right wing) reported that Trump had national assets, including the FBI HRT, on hand but no one wanted them.
Please don't use Politifact as a reliable source of "fact-checking." They're not reliable or unbiased.
An affidavit is not evidence. It's just an assertion of facts by one person against another. Criminal Law 101.
The whole process was in doubt, even before Jan 5. You should know that. The same thing the democrats said 4 years ago when they contested Trump's certification vote. And during Bush's certification vote. And all the others who claimed for 4 years that Trump wasn't the legitimate President.
And the IG's report from the DOJ said there was no evidence that Trump had anything to do with the riot or was in any way connected to anyone involved. So there's not a lot of evidence that anything was gonna happen. Not a lot, as in none.
Keep grasping at straws that fit the narrative.
Mayor Bowser emphatically turned down requests for the National Guard to deploy ahead of time. Her signed letter is viewable online.
Even Newsweek (not exactly right wing) reported that Trump had national assets, including the FBI HRT, on hand but no one wanted them.
Please don't use Politifact as a reliable source of "fact-checking." They're not reliable or unbiased.
An affidavit is not evidence. It's just an assertion of facts by one person against another. Criminal Law 101.
The whole process was in doubt, even before Jan 5. You should know that. The same thing the democrats said 4 years ago when they contested Trump's certification vote. And during Bush's certification vote. And all the others who claimed for 4 years that Trump wasn't the legitimate President.
And the IG's report from the DOJ said there was no evidence that Trump had anything to do with the riot or was in any way connected to anyone involved. So there's not a lot of evidence that anything was gonna happen. Not a lot, as in none.
Keep grasping at straws that fit the narrative.
(0)
(0)
SPC Kevin Ford
Sgt (Join to see) -
You stated:
"It almost feels like they were obstructed from coming to the capitol's aid. I wonder who would have benefitted from that?"
Trump? :) It certainly wouldn't have helped members of Congress if they had gotten to them. But to be fair, I don't think most people thought this would happen on the right or the left (except ironically Trump who has a good feel for his supporters). Most were thinking more along the line of "normal" post election protests with some, but not overwhelming, violence. But it also wouldn't surprise me if politicians (on both sides) were concerned with the optics, so that's a fair point. Doubt Trump offered up 10K troop before hand. That's just the kind of thing he like to exaggerate about.
Politifact is pretty reliable. Normally their detractors look for one or two outlier mistakes that they made and then use those to discredit all the correct findings. I will admit I wouldn't say that is false like they did, but instead unverified from an unreliable source.
You stated:
"An affidavit is not evidence. It's just an assertion of facts by one person against another. Criminal Law 101."
Not exactly, it contains much of the evidence that will will be used and supports the criminal complaint. It also doesn't convict anyone. What it does contain is evidence that the submitter is attesting to (under criminal penalty if they are lying, making it up, etc) is real. I'm not going off the charges, but simply looking at the evidence presented. I find it unlikely that the police are making up social media posts, transmissions, pictures, etc all that will cause a mistrial (and likely criminal charges for the author) if they are found to be faked.
You stated:
"And the IG's report from the DOJ said there was no evidence that Trump had anything to do with the riot or was in any way connected to anyone involved."
There is a large difference between what people who participated in January 6 thought was going to happen and what did. I suspect Trump just let it roll to see how it would turn out. In the accused minds it isn't unlikely (particularly if they were involved in QAnon where Trump is some sort of savior) that they believed Trump would have acted as I stated. Do I think Trump coordinated with this Oath Keeper's group? No. Do I think they thought what they were doing was for him? Yup, I do.
You stated:
"It almost feels like they were obstructed from coming to the capitol's aid. I wonder who would have benefitted from that?"
Trump? :) It certainly wouldn't have helped members of Congress if they had gotten to them. But to be fair, I don't think most people thought this would happen on the right or the left (except ironically Trump who has a good feel for his supporters). Most were thinking more along the line of "normal" post election protests with some, but not overwhelming, violence. But it also wouldn't surprise me if politicians (on both sides) were concerned with the optics, so that's a fair point. Doubt Trump offered up 10K troop before hand. That's just the kind of thing he like to exaggerate about.
Politifact is pretty reliable. Normally their detractors look for one or two outlier mistakes that they made and then use those to discredit all the correct findings. I will admit I wouldn't say that is false like they did, but instead unverified from an unreliable source.
You stated:
"An affidavit is not evidence. It's just an assertion of facts by one person against another. Criminal Law 101."
Not exactly, it contains much of the evidence that will will be used and supports the criminal complaint. It also doesn't convict anyone. What it does contain is evidence that the submitter is attesting to (under criminal penalty if they are lying, making it up, etc) is real. I'm not going off the charges, but simply looking at the evidence presented. I find it unlikely that the police are making up social media posts, transmissions, pictures, etc all that will cause a mistrial (and likely criminal charges for the author) if they are found to be faked.
You stated:
"And the IG's report from the DOJ said there was no evidence that Trump had anything to do with the riot or was in any way connected to anyone involved."
There is a large difference between what people who participated in January 6 thought was going to happen and what did. I suspect Trump just let it roll to see how it would turn out. In the accused minds it isn't unlikely (particularly if they were involved in QAnon where Trump is some sort of savior) that they believed Trump would have acted as I stated. Do I think Trump coordinated with this Oath Keeper's group? No. Do I think they thought what they were doing was for him? Yup, I do.
(0)
(0)
Sgt (Join to see)
SPC Kevin Ford - Let's see....who's benefitting from all of this hoopla? The democrats, of course. This way they get to keep up the "Insurrection" mantra since the "Russia, Russia, Russia" one didn't work.
Who obstructed them coming to the aid of the Capitol police? Democrats. Read Bowser's letter. And since Pelosi won't testify, I guess no one is going to be getting answers from her on what she ordered the Sgt at Arms to do. Or not do.
Politifact is not reliable.
Not exactly? Yes. Exactly. An affidavit is not evidence. Study up on what it actually is. Nothing in an affidavit has to be proven. It's a statement of what one person says are facts as they're put on paper in order to progress to another step in the process. As someone who written many affidavits, I know exactly how they work.
The whole QAnon thing is bullshit. Beyond folks like Chewbacca Guy, no one buys that shit so spare me with the Trump Savior crap.
You're still grasping at straws, Kevin.
Who obstructed them coming to the aid of the Capitol police? Democrats. Read Bowser's letter. And since Pelosi won't testify, I guess no one is going to be getting answers from her on what she ordered the Sgt at Arms to do. Or not do.
Politifact is not reliable.
Not exactly? Yes. Exactly. An affidavit is not evidence. Study up on what it actually is. Nothing in an affidavit has to be proven. It's a statement of what one person says are facts as they're put on paper in order to progress to another step in the process. As someone who written many affidavits, I know exactly how they work.
The whole QAnon thing is bullshit. Beyond folks like Chewbacca Guy, no one buys that shit so spare me with the Trump Savior crap.
You're still grasping at straws, Kevin.
(0)
(0)
1
1
0
Those who doth downplay this pertinent event are the guilty and not the innocent who accept the clear and convincing facts of this insurrection!
Rich
Rich
(1)
(0)
Sgt (Join to see)
MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi - I'm suffering from PTSD just from looking at this photo.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google