Posted on Mar 30, 2019
Pence's killer answer to Eric Holder question, 'Exactly when did you think America was great?'...
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America has been great ever since it adopted the Constitution and stuck to it. Cultural aberrations such as slavery and disenfranchisement of women were doomed on that day. The Constitution not only didn't establish these things, it provided a framework in which they could be corrected. America remained great until the progressive movement was inspired by Woodrow Wilson. Since that time the Left has whittled away at that greatness, attacking individual rights by promising to free people from responsibility for themselves and their government. Ironically, the Progressive Movement reached its zenith during the Obama Administration in which Holder served (and served poorly). How do we make America great again? Reinspire our children to embrace freedom and responsibility. Pare away the excesses of government and put it back in the box of limited powers. Re-ignite the search for moral perfection without falling victim to Utopian dreams of absolute perfection.
Pence's killer answer to Eric Holder question, 'Exactly when did you think America was great?'...
Posted from bizpacreview.com
Constitution
Freedom
Responsibility
Donald Trump
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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There are two America's and two very different life experiences, and world views.
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PO1 Sharon Powell
Yes. I grew up in a world where the world did no see me as a child. There was always danger because I was black. I was two years old when Emmett Till a 14-year-old child was lynched for being a 14-year-old. I could go on but I want. I am black and my life has never mattered. I have given up on trying to convince the world that I deserve to be treted with dignity and respect. White America has been told for more than 400 years that I am not quite human. Ironically, my DNA shows that I am 10% Scottish, 5% English, and 3% Eastern European--because the men who kidnapped our great grandmothers were raped by men who saw them as nothing more than objects. I am not bitter because betterness would way me down. I am weary. I wept when I saw men, some who I proobaly served beside, walking around in the Captial carrying a Confederate flag. Nothing has changed in the two America:) I write this with no hope of chnging anyone's minds. JO1 Sharon Denise Powell, USN (Ret.)
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I am so grateful that Mr. Pence was not murdered on December 6, 2020. No matter what his politics he did not deserve to be put in that kind of danger. I am so glad that America has always been great for you. However, Eric Holder and I were born into a different America and it has never been great for us. Our lives have never mattered. The world has never viewed us as fully human and thus deserving the right to be treated with dignity and respect. Holder and I stand on the shoulders of men and women who had to fight for the right to vote, for the right to live, ride a train, have a job--even serve in the military. I can't speak for the former attorney general, however, this 67-year-old grandmother has given up. You win. I will no longer try to convince you that I deserve to be treated with respect and dignity simply because I am a fellow human being. The Pandemic has made it easy for me to stay in my home and avoid gun touting vigilantes.
Again, yes, America has always been great for you, if you are of European descent, but not if you are Native American or of African descent.
Again, yes, America has always been great for you, if you are of European descent, but not if you are Native American or of African descent.
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Respectfully, your argument is deeply flawed from the beginning. You write, “America has been great ever since it adopted the Constitution and stuck to it. Cultural aberrations such as slavery and disenfranchisement of women were doomed on that day.” Allow me to explain.
The Constitution is the cultural aberration. Until then, slavery and disenfranchisement were pretty normal. All over the world. It took the creation of a truly unique form of governance to get us on the road to where we are today. That same road doomed institutions like chattal slavery or systemic disenfranchisement of women. The Constitution is what’s truly unique in world history.
We’re still relatively young as a nation. Just Two+ centuries. Our great American experiment is barely solidified and ever evolving. You write, “America remained great until the progressive movement was inspired by Woodrow Wilson.” Negative. That assumes that we started out on top, and it’s been downhill since. You think the downfall of America started with Wilson? Right on. However, I think if you, I, or most any American spent any time living in the turn of the 20th century time frame, we’d quickly find ourselves clicking our heels and wishing our way back to good ‘ol 2019. (For too many reasons to list).
I don’t really give three sh*ts about ‘make America great again’. But I understand why some folks do. Not everyone has the benefit of being a white male born in the second half of the 20th century. While today is greater than 100 years ago, the roads to get here have been uniquely challenging for everyone. I understand why some folks don’t want to retravel those roads.
America hasn’t always been great for everyone. If people can’t understand that, it demonstrates a fear of examining one’s own values and beliefs. “Re-ignite the search for moral perfection without falling victim to Utopian dreams of absolute perfection.” right, because the search for moral perfection is such a large part of our past, particularly Pre-Wilson. (Maybe, we just need to start a proper search for moral perfection).
See attached photo for a simple, yet effective demonstration.
Best of luck
Capt Gregory Prickett
The Constitution is the cultural aberration. Until then, slavery and disenfranchisement were pretty normal. All over the world. It took the creation of a truly unique form of governance to get us on the road to where we are today. That same road doomed institutions like chattal slavery or systemic disenfranchisement of women. The Constitution is what’s truly unique in world history.
We’re still relatively young as a nation. Just Two+ centuries. Our great American experiment is barely solidified and ever evolving. You write, “America remained great until the progressive movement was inspired by Woodrow Wilson.” Negative. That assumes that we started out on top, and it’s been downhill since. You think the downfall of America started with Wilson? Right on. However, I think if you, I, or most any American spent any time living in the turn of the 20th century time frame, we’d quickly find ourselves clicking our heels and wishing our way back to good ‘ol 2019. (For too many reasons to list).
I don’t really give three sh*ts about ‘make America great again’. But I understand why some folks do. Not everyone has the benefit of being a white male born in the second half of the 20th century. While today is greater than 100 years ago, the roads to get here have been uniquely challenging for everyone. I understand why some folks don’t want to retravel those roads.
America hasn’t always been great for everyone. If people can’t understand that, it demonstrates a fear of examining one’s own values and beliefs. “Re-ignite the search for moral perfection without falling victim to Utopian dreams of absolute perfection.” right, because the search for moral perfection is such a large part of our past, particularly Pre-Wilson. (Maybe, we just need to start a proper search for moral perfection).
See attached photo for a simple, yet effective demonstration.
Best of luck
Capt Gregory Prickett
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Cpl Jeff N.
SGT (Join to see) - I am looking at the term progressive as it is defined the historical context of US politics. Liberalism is what the founders embraced in their writings and in practice. Progressivism was not a political concept in their time and it is unlikely they would have embraces larger and more involved government
I am well aware the Constitution was drafted and ratified without amendments first, then the Bill of Rights was added. They also leaned on other organic documents such as Virginia Declaration of Rights, the English Bill of Rights and the Magna Carta.
You should complete your profile and not be anonymous if you want to engage with others on the site. Always appreciate good discussion/debate.
I am well aware the Constitution was drafted and ratified without amendments first, then the Bill of Rights was added. They also leaned on other organic documents such as Virginia Declaration of Rights, the English Bill of Rights and the Magna Carta.
You should complete your profile and not be anonymous if you want to engage with others on the site. Always appreciate good discussion/debate.
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SGT (Join to see)
Cpl Jeff N. - respectfully, while you’re well aware the Constitution was drafted and ratified without amendments first, you originally wrote, “That is why the drafted and passed a Constitution with a Bill of Rights.” That’s not what you stated. In fact, it’s the opposite of what you stated. However, if you’re aware of the correct information I then provided for you, I guess no harm, no foul.
You write, “Progressivism was not a political concept in their time and it is unlikely they would have embraces larger and more involved government.” Um..alright then. However, I’d recommend you read up on the philosophy of Progressivism. If you don’t think our founding and subsequent early generations were influenced by early Progressive thinkers like Kant or Hegel, you are sorely mistaken.
As previously stated, “Progressivism as an idea is different than the time in American politics known as the Prgressive Era.” You seem to limit your definition and understanding to the latter. However, your inability to acknowledge the former, however willing or inadvertent, doesn’t change the fact that Progressivism absolutely was a political concept in their time, and it absolutely influenced our beginnings as a nation.
While I appreciate the advice, if a public profile with pictures and a bunch of information is the standard for engaging in good conversation with others on RP, I respectfully decline. Correct information from ‘anonymous’ is vastly more constructive than incorrect information provided by anyone with a shiny picture and a full bio.
Some good contemporary sources on some of the above are Thomas West or Harold Mah.
Good talk
You write, “Progressivism was not a political concept in their time and it is unlikely they would have embraces larger and more involved government.” Um..alright then. However, I’d recommend you read up on the philosophy of Progressivism. If you don’t think our founding and subsequent early generations were influenced by early Progressive thinkers like Kant or Hegel, you are sorely mistaken.
As previously stated, “Progressivism as an idea is different than the time in American politics known as the Prgressive Era.” You seem to limit your definition and understanding to the latter. However, your inability to acknowledge the former, however willing or inadvertent, doesn’t change the fact that Progressivism absolutely was a political concept in their time, and it absolutely influenced our beginnings as a nation.
While I appreciate the advice, if a public profile with pictures and a bunch of information is the standard for engaging in good conversation with others on RP, I respectfully decline. Correct information from ‘anonymous’ is vastly more constructive than incorrect information provided by anyone with a shiny picture and a full bio.
Some good contemporary sources on some of the above are Thomas West or Harold Mah.
Good talk
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Cpl Jeff N.
SGT (Join to see) - Most of us have real names and real profiles. There are no doubt some that are false and some embellished. I only engage with folks that I think are genuine and legitimate.
When we are talking about modern/American history I use the more contemporary definitions and terms. The modern American progressive movement was a late 19th century and early 20th century political/philosophical movement. There have been other movements that have called themselves "progressive". The founders (almost to a man)would identify as Liberals (as I defined it above).
Anyway, all the best. Hope you change your mind on the profile. We need thinkers and people that can express thought without a stream of name calling and whining.
When we are talking about modern/American history I use the more contemporary definitions and terms. The modern American progressive movement was a late 19th century and early 20th century political/philosophical movement. There have been other movements that have called themselves "progressive". The founders (almost to a man)would identify as Liberals (as I defined it above).
Anyway, all the best. Hope you change your mind on the profile. We need thinkers and people that can express thought without a stream of name calling and whining.
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SGT (Join to see)
Cpl Jeff N. - I have a real name and a real profile. It’s simply not publicly viewable. Please reread anything I’ve written. If you don’t think my words are at least genuine and sincere, I really have no advice for you, because they are.
I don’t see the need to go around in circles. I understand how you define and use ‘Progressivism’. However, I don’t understand how you fail to acknowledge that the influence of the Progressive ideas of Kant (particularly in several of the first ten amendments) influenced our Founding Fathers. (*your definition of a particular era in history is not an all encompassing definition of the ideas of progressivism).
I’ll ask this. Would me changing my mind on my profile have any influence on you changing your mind on this topic? im betting ‘no’. But, without needing to take my word for it, I’ve given you the names of two historical thinkers that influenced the US on early Progressivism and two contemporary sources. Read up on all of it, and if you still think I’m off base, then we could have an actual discussion.
You write, “We need thinkers and people that can express thought without a stream of name calling and whining.”. I agree, but it does lead to the question, ‘do you think I’m whining or name calling?’ I’ve reread everything I’ve written, and I can safely say that I haven’t.
In fact, the opposite seems to be true. It’s been my general experience on RP that when folks get corrected on the bad information they put out, they attack. While subtle, you appear to fit that mold. Attack the legitimacy of an ‘anonymous’ source. Start giving out unwarranted, unsolicited advice, seemingly as a ploy to detract from the flaws in your arguments.
I’m pretty simple. I spent a lot of years earning a bit of fancy lettering after my name. I state what I mean, I mean what I state. If I make an error, I own it. Unfortunately, these traits appear to be lacking on RP.
Well, I’ll start to wrap it up. Check up on those resources. You just might learn a thing or three.
Good talk.
I don’t see the need to go around in circles. I understand how you define and use ‘Progressivism’. However, I don’t understand how you fail to acknowledge that the influence of the Progressive ideas of Kant (particularly in several of the first ten amendments) influenced our Founding Fathers. (*your definition of a particular era in history is not an all encompassing definition of the ideas of progressivism).
I’ll ask this. Would me changing my mind on my profile have any influence on you changing your mind on this topic? im betting ‘no’. But, without needing to take my word for it, I’ve given you the names of two historical thinkers that influenced the US on early Progressivism and two contemporary sources. Read up on all of it, and if you still think I’m off base, then we could have an actual discussion.
You write, “We need thinkers and people that can express thought without a stream of name calling and whining.”. I agree, but it does lead to the question, ‘do you think I’m whining or name calling?’ I’ve reread everything I’ve written, and I can safely say that I haven’t.
In fact, the opposite seems to be true. It’s been my general experience on RP that when folks get corrected on the bad information they put out, they attack. While subtle, you appear to fit that mold. Attack the legitimacy of an ‘anonymous’ source. Start giving out unwarranted, unsolicited advice, seemingly as a ploy to detract from the flaws in your arguments.
I’m pretty simple. I spent a lot of years earning a bit of fancy lettering after my name. I state what I mean, I mean what I state. If I make an error, I own it. Unfortunately, these traits appear to be lacking on RP.
Well, I’ll start to wrap it up. Check up on those resources. You just might learn a thing or three.
Good talk.
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