Posted on Oct 18, 2017
TRADOC CSM: Bring drill sergeants back to AIT
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 12
The article is wrong in stating that it’s a 7 to 1 Trainee/DS ratio in basic training. It’s 20 to 1 on a perfect day. But those do not exist. Our TDA only allows for 12 Drill Sergeants (which we are rarely fully staffed) and there is always 1-2 DS off from CQ/Staff Duty, usually one in school and one on any manner of extraneous details. Companies regularly fill at 240 Trainees. We don’t need Drill Sergeants in AIT we need more in BCT. It’s a weakening of the NCO Corps overall because of the kinder, gentler approach to the new generation of recruits. You don’t need an uncomfortable hat to shape future soldiers, you need a backbone. You also need a supportive chain of command who is concerned with quality over quantity. We preach readiness but all we really care about are numbers on a slide. Sorry for the rant but that’s just my small view as a currently serving DS with a year on the trail.
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SFC (Join to see)
Well thank you for your continued service @Jerad Therrien, maybe things will change sooner than later.
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Suspended Profile
SFC (Join to see) One of a few that wear the brown round that share my point of view.
SSG (Join to see)
Amen to that 7-1 Ratio; when I read that I laughed, that would mean there’d be approximately 34 Drills assigned to each BCT Company...could you imagine that many Drills?
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See my Comments below from this topic previously posted on RP.
I was a USAR Drill Sergeant when this concept first came out. Take it for what it's worth, but I heard through the grape vine at the time the following story:
PVT Snuffy graduates Basic and AIT, (maybe it was OSUT but I doubt it). He arrives at his first duty station and meets his Squad Leader. The SSG tells PVT Snuffy to do something and the response is something to the effect of; Your not a Drill Sergeant i don't have to do that.
I never heard the end of that conversation, but the Army in it's wisdom decided to not simply allow NCO's to unscrew PVT Snuffy's head and shit down his neck. Instead they decided the problem was new Soldiers needed to get use to following instructions from NCO's who did not have a Campaign Hat. Then they would learn to follow instructions from someone wearing stripes, not just the "HAT".
The problem is what we have all seen in our formations in the last 10 years or so, undisciplined Soldiers who don't do what they are told, who argue, or want an explanation and or bitch and complain. I don't know if putting Drill Sergeants back in AIT is the right or wrong answer, but I do know it will not solve this problem. Drill Sergeants hands are tied so much currently it is ridiculous.
I am currently the 1SG for an Army Reserve Drill Sergeant Company. My Drill Sergeants and I when to FT Leonard Wood this summer for 17 days of work at a BCT BN. My Drill Sergeants were told by the BN Commander, just as he had told his Active Duty Drill Sergeants, "if you have the Privates doing push ups, you will be down with them." This is way to far the wrong way. You have a very hard time conducting "corrective training" when you are receiving the same corrective training you are attempting to provide. The "kid gloves" need to come off and Senior leadership needs to get out of the NCO's way and allow them to do their jobs. NCO's need to be given the authority back to make whatever corrections they deem necessary at the time for the given offense. NCO's also need to be backed up by their chain of command all the way to the top. Unless the NCO does something immoral or unethical, at that point that NCO and only that NCO needs to receive the full blunt force trauma the UCMJ allows and kick him/her out of the Service.
I was a USAR Drill Sergeant when this concept first came out. Take it for what it's worth, but I heard through the grape vine at the time the following story:
PVT Snuffy graduates Basic and AIT, (maybe it was OSUT but I doubt it). He arrives at his first duty station and meets his Squad Leader. The SSG tells PVT Snuffy to do something and the response is something to the effect of; Your not a Drill Sergeant i don't have to do that.
I never heard the end of that conversation, but the Army in it's wisdom decided to not simply allow NCO's to unscrew PVT Snuffy's head and shit down his neck. Instead they decided the problem was new Soldiers needed to get use to following instructions from NCO's who did not have a Campaign Hat. Then they would learn to follow instructions from someone wearing stripes, not just the "HAT".
The problem is what we have all seen in our formations in the last 10 years or so, undisciplined Soldiers who don't do what they are told, who argue, or want an explanation and or bitch and complain. I don't know if putting Drill Sergeants back in AIT is the right or wrong answer, but I do know it will not solve this problem. Drill Sergeants hands are tied so much currently it is ridiculous.
I am currently the 1SG for an Army Reserve Drill Sergeant Company. My Drill Sergeants and I when to FT Leonard Wood this summer for 17 days of work at a BCT BN. My Drill Sergeants were told by the BN Commander, just as he had told his Active Duty Drill Sergeants, "if you have the Privates doing push ups, you will be down with them." This is way to far the wrong way. You have a very hard time conducting "corrective training" when you are receiving the same corrective training you are attempting to provide. The "kid gloves" need to come off and Senior leadership needs to get out of the NCO's way and allow them to do their jobs. NCO's need to be given the authority back to make whatever corrections they deem necessary at the time for the given offense. NCO's also need to be backed up by their chain of command all the way to the top. Unless the NCO does something immoral or unethical, at that point that NCO and only that NCO needs to receive the full blunt force trauma the UCMJ allows and kick him/her out of the Service.
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CSM Richard StCyr
"The SSG tells PVT Snuffy to do something and the response is something to the effect of; Your not a Drill Sergeant i don't have to do that."
I encountered that verbatim on two occasions, both at FT Benning in the 80's. Once at Sand Hill with a troop moving through a cordoned and marked construction site and once on Ranger Support Element duty, only insert "Not a Ranger". End state was not good for either troopy.
I encountered that verbatim on two occasions, both at FT Benning in the 80's. Once at Sand Hill with a troop moving through a cordoned and marked construction site and once on Ranger Support Element duty, only insert "Not a Ranger". End state was not good for either troopy.
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