Posted on Mar 29, 2017
Barack Obama changed how NSA intercepts of Americans like Donald Trump could be shared
3.14K
120
47
10
10
0
This article outlines the issues behind President Trumps claim that he was "wiretapped" during the election. The Democrats should be as concerned about this as the Republicans. Why? Because the Trump White-house now has access to NSA intercepts of its opponents.
Barack Obama changed how NSA intercepts of Americans like Donald Trump could be shared
Posted from circa.com
Donald Trump
Election 2016
Barack Obama
Intelligence
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
6
6
0
I have not read the artical... I do no need too. There are limits on surveillance. In my humble opinion, the NSA has exceeded those limitations. I know what spying and "eavesdropping" curtails. I understand when checks and balances flip to only a check without a balance. It is wrong. It is a moral wrong. It is an ethical wrong. Just because you can...doesn't mean you should.
Everything printed...even here... is being retained. Every telephonic conversation can be... retained. Everything put over the airwaves...can be retained. Having been a political candidate...I understand the desire to know what the next step of your opponent is going to be. At what cost does this take on the human psychic?
When everything is being recorded and stored on multi-micro data discs or in a so called "clouds with unlimited storage capabilities", and then can be searched for and disclosed to anyone for any purpose, which most uses will be for revenge, What does that say about yours and my freedoms?
What kind of monster have we created...let alone...why are we continuing to permit this mega data retention of all of us to continue?
We desire safety...We want security... its a trending concept to stop a violent action before the action occurs. Especially a terrorist action.
But when data collection starts including private conversations between "incidental" contacts between unknowing or unwilling parties, and that data has absolutely nothing to do with preventing terrorists actions, or a criminal action for that matter, and that data is disclosed to the media without consent of the parties involved, WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM UNLAWFUL OR UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS.
Even if the data was originally collected "LAWFULLY"...when the conversations were retained and disclosed having nothing to do with criminal acts or terrorism... IT BECAME UNLAWFUL WHEN IT WAS CONTINUED TO BE COLLECTED AND STORED AND THEN DISCLOSED.
Anyone, terminated from employment, who's conversations were captured and used in the termination process and those conversations captured that had nothing to do with criminal acts, or terrorism, has just cause to file a civil suit against those who captured, and retained, then disclosed those messages as well as those persons who permitted the disclosure to the media, and the media persons responsible for publishing, printing, or broadcasting that information.
Using captured data to terminate employment is and was a civil matter, an employment matter...protected under the employer/employee rules, laws, and regulations.
The process, started under the Bush Administration, and the Patriot Act, had a good foundation...But, when altered as it has been done, under the Obama Administration, and no doubt under Trump to continue... needs to be put to an immediate halt. NOW. Not 10 seconds from now... not 10 days from now...but right fucking NOW!
Also, in another issue related to unlawful search and seizures... I find it totally disgusting that even the TSA has taken additional steps to search, a physical pat down, meaning hands placed on the exterior of a child's clothing, after passing through a detector, 11 year old children wearing a tee shirt and shorts for Christs sake. There is a limit to stupidity...and that is another one that exceeded stupidity.
Its now nothing short of total arrogance.
Everything printed...even here... is being retained. Every telephonic conversation can be... retained. Everything put over the airwaves...can be retained. Having been a political candidate...I understand the desire to know what the next step of your opponent is going to be. At what cost does this take on the human psychic?
When everything is being recorded and stored on multi-micro data discs or in a so called "clouds with unlimited storage capabilities", and then can be searched for and disclosed to anyone for any purpose, which most uses will be for revenge, What does that say about yours and my freedoms?
What kind of monster have we created...let alone...why are we continuing to permit this mega data retention of all of us to continue?
We desire safety...We want security... its a trending concept to stop a violent action before the action occurs. Especially a terrorist action.
But when data collection starts including private conversations between "incidental" contacts between unknowing or unwilling parties, and that data has absolutely nothing to do with preventing terrorists actions, or a criminal action for that matter, and that data is disclosed to the media without consent of the parties involved, WE HAVE EXCEEDED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM UNLAWFUL OR UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS.
Even if the data was originally collected "LAWFULLY"...when the conversations were retained and disclosed having nothing to do with criminal acts or terrorism... IT BECAME UNLAWFUL WHEN IT WAS CONTINUED TO BE COLLECTED AND STORED AND THEN DISCLOSED.
Anyone, terminated from employment, who's conversations were captured and used in the termination process and those conversations captured that had nothing to do with criminal acts, or terrorism, has just cause to file a civil suit against those who captured, and retained, then disclosed those messages as well as those persons who permitted the disclosure to the media, and the media persons responsible for publishing, printing, or broadcasting that information.
Using captured data to terminate employment is and was a civil matter, an employment matter...protected under the employer/employee rules, laws, and regulations.
The process, started under the Bush Administration, and the Patriot Act, had a good foundation...But, when altered as it has been done, under the Obama Administration, and no doubt under Trump to continue... needs to be put to an immediate halt. NOW. Not 10 seconds from now... not 10 days from now...but right fucking NOW!
Also, in another issue related to unlawful search and seizures... I find it totally disgusting that even the TSA has taken additional steps to search, a physical pat down, meaning hands placed on the exterior of a child's clothing, after passing through a detector, 11 year old children wearing a tee shirt and shorts for Christs sake. There is a limit to stupidity...and that is another one that exceeded stupidity.
Its now nothing short of total arrogance.
(6)
(0)
SSgt Clare May
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin - When an individual can circumvent a system, and not be immediately apprehended or detected by others in that organization, that system has failed. Manning was what..? an E-2? That is a rookie partner in any organizational system... less that a year in most branches of service. Trust was an issue... for certain... but permitting a first year employee to have access to everything classified, and permitted to download and remove them from the site, especially in the military, reeks of gross incompetence.
I submit...the system failed. Those in charge of the system checks and balances...failed. It only had to fail one time to be a reckless disclosure of secrete or confidential data...and it has failed miserably at least twice now.
Government is not the bad guy all the time. I submit however the government can be, and habitually can be, flawed and skewed mostly due to politics and human nature of fight, flight. IMHO, Manning and Snowden both, thought they could do something good by their actions, without their illicit actions thou, the American public would never be having conversations based on crap that is being published by WIKI leaks.
Narcissism was a motivational factor in both these individuals. Certainly. That trait is among all of us. Economically? Possibly.
Police, Law enforcement...and their actions have created more case law in the history of the Constitution than any other occupation. America even created an entire different set of laws for active duty military personnel. Where else, if a individual walks off the job...can be jailed, imprisoned or even executed for walking away? Wiretapping without probable cause or reasonable suspicions were one... recall the early days of Al Capon? Searching ones belongings without consent unless an exception exists is another, and we created about 11 exceptions to the search warrant rule after numerous court cases... arrest and detention without cause is another... and a huge one called "Miranda V Arizona"...I can go on and on... and that is just in the 10th US District Court of Appeals... and not only affecting the 4th, but the 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and 12th Amendments...have all been brought before the Supreme Court because of direct actions by police and law enforcement. Almost all of these case laws, were not violations of specific laws at the time they occurred; meaning...
...Fueling the fire, has a solid, historically accurate, portrayal of government overreach. Without addressing these issues...the pattern of conduct continues.
I submit...the system failed. Those in charge of the system checks and balances...failed. It only had to fail one time to be a reckless disclosure of secrete or confidential data...and it has failed miserably at least twice now.
Government is not the bad guy all the time. I submit however the government can be, and habitually can be, flawed and skewed mostly due to politics and human nature of fight, flight. IMHO, Manning and Snowden both, thought they could do something good by their actions, without their illicit actions thou, the American public would never be having conversations based on crap that is being published by WIKI leaks.
Narcissism was a motivational factor in both these individuals. Certainly. That trait is among all of us. Economically? Possibly.
Police, Law enforcement...and their actions have created more case law in the history of the Constitution than any other occupation. America even created an entire different set of laws for active duty military personnel. Where else, if a individual walks off the job...can be jailed, imprisoned or even executed for walking away? Wiretapping without probable cause or reasonable suspicions were one... recall the early days of Al Capon? Searching ones belongings without consent unless an exception exists is another, and we created about 11 exceptions to the search warrant rule after numerous court cases... arrest and detention without cause is another... and a huge one called "Miranda V Arizona"...I can go on and on... and that is just in the 10th US District Court of Appeals... and not only affecting the 4th, but the 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and 12th Amendments...have all been brought before the Supreme Court because of direct actions by police and law enforcement. Almost all of these case laws, were not violations of specific laws at the time they occurred; meaning...
...Fueling the fire, has a solid, historically accurate, portrayal of government overreach. Without addressing these issues...the pattern of conduct continues.
(0)
(0)
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
Sorry but based on your very black and white interpretation of what enabled Snowden and Manning, you obviously do not understand what they did to get the information they attained and the technology involved (and our respective capabilities for those technologies). Snowden for example stole supervisor credentials to get some of the information he exfilled.
This is also not the first time for have taken government secrets and given them to those who should not have it. Now this isn't to say we're perfect but I'd like to know what you think should have been done to prevent them from doing what they did.
The narcissism I speak of for these two goes beyond a desire by some to sound important or special. Their's was to an extreme. They wanted to be right and they wanted people to think they were more important than what they really were. Their motivation wasn't the good they might have though would bolster their ego, it was the attention and the need to be the smartest/most important person in the room.
Bringing up other examples which have nothing to do with the Manning or Snowden cases is irrelevant. No one is saying the government gets it right every time, which is why we have courts. Some within the government even push for additions, modification, and even clarifications to laws based on their interpretation. But with regards to Manning and Snowden, procedures were in place for them to report what they believed was wrong. They ignored those procedures.
This is also not the first time for have taken government secrets and given them to those who should not have it. Now this isn't to say we're perfect but I'd like to know what you think should have been done to prevent them from doing what they did.
The narcissism I speak of for these two goes beyond a desire by some to sound important or special. Their's was to an extreme. They wanted to be right and they wanted people to think they were more important than what they really were. Their motivation wasn't the good they might have though would bolster their ego, it was the attention and the need to be the smartest/most important person in the room.
Bringing up other examples which have nothing to do with the Manning or Snowden cases is irrelevant. No one is saying the government gets it right every time, which is why we have courts. Some within the government even push for additions, modification, and even clarifications to laws based on their interpretation. But with regards to Manning and Snowden, procedures were in place for them to report what they believed was wrong. They ignored those procedures.
(0)
(0)
SSgt Clare May
As long as you generalize, the same can be reciprocated.
Stealing a supervisors credentials...? Specific articulate event. Your words not mine... i.e. an admission of a failure of the system and people your diverting from and passively accepting the consequences of those illicit acts.
The credentials should have never been able to be stolen...carelessness...recklessness... a failure. Simple, and yes... black and white. Not rocket science.
You stated "...This is also not the first time for have taken government secrets and given them to those who should not have it...The two you speak of (Manning/Snowden) have only fueled the fire in the belief that the government is systemically and purposefully trying to do wrong and circumvent the laws dictated in the Constitution".
They were not the only ones in the history of divulging TS and other classified data... Case law across the USA in each of the Federal Judicial Districts and State Courts proves beyond a reasonable doubt and established probable cause that it has happened...and...IMHO... will continue to happen.
Mega data collection, by the Government, of each and every American...SERVES NO PURPOSE. Now by a private industry... for sales, survey groups... different animal all together.
It is not the government responsibility to monitor pro-gun, anti-gun, anti-abortion, pro -abortion, possible political candidates or citizens who voice opinions not in conflict with the 1st Amendment unless it is Libel... i.e. a criminal act... or it disclosed a future criminal act.
1. Recognizing there is a problem is the first step to begin stopping the problem. You have't reached that level yet, as you are still defending the process and fixing the blame on human error and narcissism.
2. Addressing theft of supervisors credentials and making it 100% impossible is the second. You haven't addressed that issue yet. Simply demoting the supervisor isn't going to solve the problem. I mean we are dealing with TS material...shouldn't it have the same care as what it purports to be?
3. Stop collection and retention of all mega data and redirect to only known existing threats and their associates. No one is willing to give up that power they hold, up to and including former and current personnel of the Executive branch of government.
4. If a contact is determined not be be criminal, or a national security threat, immediate destruction. This means you never have to address the issue of "masking" any name. Do not retain any data collected of that individual, do not permit the downloading, or transferring of files of this data at all.
Stealing a supervisors credentials...? Specific articulate event. Your words not mine... i.e. an admission of a failure of the system and people your diverting from and passively accepting the consequences of those illicit acts.
The credentials should have never been able to be stolen...carelessness...recklessness... a failure. Simple, and yes... black and white. Not rocket science.
You stated "...This is also not the first time for have taken government secrets and given them to those who should not have it...The two you speak of (Manning/Snowden) have only fueled the fire in the belief that the government is systemically and purposefully trying to do wrong and circumvent the laws dictated in the Constitution".
They were not the only ones in the history of divulging TS and other classified data... Case law across the USA in each of the Federal Judicial Districts and State Courts proves beyond a reasonable doubt and established probable cause that it has happened...and...IMHO... will continue to happen.
Mega data collection, by the Government, of each and every American...SERVES NO PURPOSE. Now by a private industry... for sales, survey groups... different animal all together.
It is not the government responsibility to monitor pro-gun, anti-gun, anti-abortion, pro -abortion, possible political candidates or citizens who voice opinions not in conflict with the 1st Amendment unless it is Libel... i.e. a criminal act... or it disclosed a future criminal act.
1. Recognizing there is a problem is the first step to begin stopping the problem. You have't reached that level yet, as you are still defending the process and fixing the blame on human error and narcissism.
2. Addressing theft of supervisors credentials and making it 100% impossible is the second. You haven't addressed that issue yet. Simply demoting the supervisor isn't going to solve the problem. I mean we are dealing with TS material...shouldn't it have the same care as what it purports to be?
3. Stop collection and retention of all mega data and redirect to only known existing threats and their associates. No one is willing to give up that power they hold, up to and including former and current personnel of the Executive branch of government.
4. If a contact is determined not be be criminal, or a national security threat, immediate destruction. This means you never have to address the issue of "masking" any name. Do not retain any data collected of that individual, do not permit the downloading, or transferring of files of this data at all.
(0)
(0)
SSgt Clare May
SSgt Clare May - Every working day, Supervisor's get a log in code. EVERY DAY... with an algorithm like that of a gambling device... that requires authentication as a secondary issue, and... a "no lone zone" for data access...i.e. two no less than two persons accessing with supervisors approval.
If you stop the mega data collection, retention and continued storage of all every day Americas... that gets me off the case.
If you stop the mega data collection, retention and continued storage of all every day Americas... that gets me off the case.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
Whoa... Most Interesting and Informative...
Did Not Know they went to This extent...
I wonder How Much Info BHO had on all the Congress Critters and SCOTUS Beasts that Made Them Bow before Him...
Thanks for the Share...
Did Not Know they went to This extent...
I wonder How Much Info BHO had on all the Congress Critters and SCOTUS Beasts that Made Them Bow before Him...
Thanks for the Share...
(6)
(0)
MSgt James Mullis
MSgt Kurt Stover - and you can't forget Chief Justice Roberts who wrote both the Assent and Decent on the Supreme Courts Obamacare decision!
(0)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
Hahaha! Only wish Obama administration had leverage over McConnell, Ryan, Cruz, Paul, etc. Then maybe Garland would've gotten a hearing. We wouldn't had to endure Cruz' Dr Seuss filibuster. Avoided a government shutdown. Fewer executive orders. Etc, etc, etc.
(0)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
MSgt Kurt Stover - uh perhaps because the Birther conspiracy was debunked. Seriously you're going to makeup a conspiracy to explain the failure of other conspiracies.
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation but I wish we would go back and get the whole story on HRC and the classified emails that were compromised.
(6)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google