Posted on Nov 17, 2016
Calls grow to abolish the Electoral College
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http://www.msnbc.com/brian-williams/watch/calls-grow-to-abolish-the-electoral-college [login to see] 46
Wow.
Wow.
Calls grow to abolish the Electoral College
Posted from msnbc.com
Election 2016
Donald Trump
Hillary Clinton
Government
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 19
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The way it is setup is the way it is setup...Especially to protect smaller states with their votes. It has worked in the past and now all the sudden Hillary doesn't get elected everyone wants to abolish it. Is it the best way...maybe not but popular vote certainly isn't. The sheer number of votes in California and Texas et al will override any other votes just in raw numbers.
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CW3 Harvey K.
What it comes down to is that some still think the USA is a "democracy". We are not. We are a constitutional republic formed from a union of sovereign states. We do not simply count popular votes, for to do so would create a tyranny of the majority. Those less populous states must have their status respected in our national politics.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
TSgt Frank Shirley - I doubt there would be a flood of tears...becaue the GOP has won both...many times. I has only happened 5 times where electoral college got elected without popular vote including the latest in the nations history. The one prior to this one was Al Gore and George Bush (first election)where the Republican party won the electoral not the popular...second term...different story..won both. Prior to that the other three were in the 1800s...Andrew Jackson (Founder of the Democratic Party) in 1824 won the electoral votes not the popular vote...Samuel Tilden in 1876 (Democratic Party) lost the electoral votes but won the popular vote...Grover Cleveland won the popular vote in three elections but only had electoral in two-he was the only one that served two non consecutive terms.
My point is this...it works...with all of our elections over time it has stood the test of time and it works. As CW 3 Keck stated above, it is there to protect the less populous states from being overrun. All states are equal, sovereign states and need to have equal and fair representation...even with the electoral college it is skewed at times like Hawaii...6 hours prior to their polls being opened, they had already posted their electoral votes for Hillary without hearing the voice of their people...is that fair...not in the least but it happened.
My point is this...it works...with all of our elections over time it has stood the test of time and it works. As CW 3 Keck stated above, it is there to protect the less populous states from being overrun. All states are equal, sovereign states and need to have equal and fair representation...even with the electoral college it is skewed at times like Hawaii...6 hours prior to their polls being opened, they had already posted their electoral votes for Hillary without hearing the voice of their people...is that fair...not in the least but it happened.
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SSG Jessica Bautista Every so often there is a clamoring for abolition for the constitutional amendment to eliminate the Electoral college and move from a representative republic system to a full political democracy which ignores the state boundaries. There was no clamoring for an abolishment of the electoral college when Bill Clinton won in 1992 or Barack Obama won in 2008.
The founding fathers saw the tyranny of democracy in the reign of terror in France. Democracy can work well in small homogeneous areas but it is difficult to stop demagogues from becoming dictators.
1. We probably won't know what the real vote count is for the nation since many states only count absentee ballots and military ballots if the state election results are perceived to be close.
2. The electoral college and the primary system are primary components of the representative republic. The primary system has some of the smallest states go first so that candidates campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire fist instead of New York and California where the bulk of the population has been [although it is declining as the 2010 census showed].
The electoral college mirrors the Congress by design. Each state in the Union is equal in power and prestige. Wealth and population have shifted a great deal since 1776 and most likely will continue to shift. The electoral college system enables a quicker result than waiting on the popular vote to be completely counted. Every election we have a few Congressional seats which are contested long after election day while the votes are being counted.
3. We have been dealing with gerrymandering in northern Virginia when the democrat majority redistricted a senate seat district to keep a conservative out over 10 years ago. He had planned on moving out of the area to be closer to his grandkids after his wife had a serious head surgery. That man is now the leader of the Virginia senate. However we have a senate district which includes a slice of Loudoun County and snakes around the southern border of the Potomac River to the democrat stronghold of Alexandria where the bulk of the voters are. Thanks for drawing my attention to the discussionCPT L S
LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. "Bill" Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) SGT (Join to see) SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT Forrest Stewart SGT John " Mac " McConnell SGT Robert George SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright
The founding fathers saw the tyranny of democracy in the reign of terror in France. Democracy can work well in small homogeneous areas but it is difficult to stop demagogues from becoming dictators.
1. We probably won't know what the real vote count is for the nation since many states only count absentee ballots and military ballots if the state election results are perceived to be close.
2. The electoral college and the primary system are primary components of the representative republic. The primary system has some of the smallest states go first so that candidates campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire fist instead of New York and California where the bulk of the population has been [although it is declining as the 2010 census showed].
The electoral college mirrors the Congress by design. Each state in the Union is equal in power and prestige. Wealth and population have shifted a great deal since 1776 and most likely will continue to shift. The electoral college system enables a quicker result than waiting on the popular vote to be completely counted. Every election we have a few Congressional seats which are contested long after election day while the votes are being counted.
3. We have been dealing with gerrymandering in northern Virginia when the democrat majority redistricted a senate seat district to keep a conservative out over 10 years ago. He had planned on moving out of the area to be closer to his grandkids after his wife had a serious head surgery. That man is now the leader of the Virginia senate. However we have a senate district which includes a slice of Loudoun County and snakes around the southern border of the Potomac River to the democrat stronghold of Alexandria where the bulk of the voters are. Thanks for drawing my attention to the discussionCPT L S
LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. "Bill" Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) SGT (Join to see) SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT Forrest Stewart SGT John " Mac " McConnell SGT Robert George SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright
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So, there is a cry from the major metropolitan areas to abolish a system that gives the other areas a voice in electing the president. As this requires a Constitutional amendment, the prerequisite being Congress to pass the proposal to the individual states by a super majority, and then a minimum of (I believe) 32 states to ratify the amendment, it really seems that the calls from California and New York City has no real chance as the "fly-over" states do not want to lose any more of the voice they have.
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Cpl Jeff N.
Yes, this entire conversation is just sour grapes and something to whine about in the face of a beating in the election. There is almost no way you would get an amendment drafted passed and then ratified by a super majority of states. It is a way for the left to put save on the wound of an electoral beat down. Nothing more.
Both candidates orchestrated their campaigns to win an electoral college vote. Where they campaigned, how the campaigned etc was geared for that reality. Had this been a popular vote election I suspect you would have seen a lot more of Trump in California and New York and perhaps HRC in Texas (They were both already in Florida up to their eyeballs).
This is a 50 state race. A little like the World Series being a 7 game series. Team A can out hit and, in total, out score team B. All Team B needs to do is win 4 games, not outscore team A.
Trump out worked her and did almost 2X the campaign stops and in the final week was in her blue states taking here voters. He ended up winning 3 of them (Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan). HRC thought the blue wall would hold and she could pluck FL or NC or Ohio and seal the deal. She ran to win the electoral college and lost. She was also lazy and felt she had this in the bag and didn't put out the same effort as Trump. Period. Time to move on people.
Both candidates orchestrated their campaigns to win an electoral college vote. Where they campaigned, how the campaigned etc was geared for that reality. Had this been a popular vote election I suspect you would have seen a lot more of Trump in California and New York and perhaps HRC in Texas (They were both already in Florida up to their eyeballs).
This is a 50 state race. A little like the World Series being a 7 game series. Team A can out hit and, in total, out score team B. All Team B needs to do is win 4 games, not outscore team A.
Trump out worked her and did almost 2X the campaign stops and in the final week was in her blue states taking here voters. He ended up winning 3 of them (Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan). HRC thought the blue wall would hold and she could pluck FL or NC or Ohio and seal the deal. She ran to win the electoral college and lost. She was also lazy and felt she had this in the bag and didn't put out the same effort as Trump. Period. Time to move on people.
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Cpl Jeff N.
LTC Stephen C. It seems some refuse to accept the reality that both candidates ran their campaigns to win the same race (the electoral college, not the popular vote). It is disingenuous to now act like somehow the popular vote is in play.
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CPT (Join to see)
Cpl Jeff N. - Exactly. Mrs. Clinton did not "win" the national popular vote, as people keep saying. You can't win a contest which is not being waged or a game which is not being played in the first place. It doesn't get any clearer than that, and at this point I think people have to be pretending to not understand.
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