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SFC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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NOTE, this is MY opinion, so if you get easily offended, pass this post and read the next one. Changing the current fitness standards to an MOS specific APFT would be a horrible idea. When you deploy, you can never count on a mission going as planned. Out of my 4 rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, I've never been a FOBBIT, despite being a mechanic. Heck, this last deployment, I spent more time training the Afghan mechanics (on their own FOB, with no kit, but had a security detail) than anything else. If a change is to be implemented for the Physical Fitness Test, then the change should be to make it equal across the board. Do not lower any of the standards at all. I understand the "logic" behind the gender bias of the current APFT, but it never made sense. If you should have to be carried by a battle buddy to safety, then you shouldn't have to be concerned with size, fitness or gender of the other individual. In a truly equal military, you wouldn't need to. Everyone should have the strength and endurance to accomplish any mission that they happen to be a part of. What should occur, once again, in my opinion, is to get rid of the female standard all together and have everyone take the APFT under the male standard. Going along with that, do away with the age brackets as well. In combat, the enemy doesn't care what gender you are, your personal preferences, nor your age. Everyone should be able to do the same work as anyone else, perform to a set standard, and accomplish any mission required regardless of age or gender. That is where the change should be. All MOS are now open to all genders. This was done in an effort to increase equality. In order to maintain a true fighting force, and prevent it from degenerating, then all standards should be exactly the same. Heck, I'm 32, have a rebuilt right foot, lungs that like to shut down when it's below 35, and I can still easily pass my APFT with no problem, even at the 18 y/o age bracket. If you want to throw some pull-ups into that test, then I'm all for it too. I always love a challenge.
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SFC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Sgt Tom Cunnally - I know quite a few female Soldiers that I have had the privilege to serve with down range that would excel, even by male standards on the APFT. It is just not a common place occurrence. Just like not every male Soldier is a PT Stud.
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1SG Leon Espe
1SG Leon Espe
>1 y
Being of the "Old Army" I never served with a female counterpart in the field. When I was an automatic weapons man during the Korean War in 1950-51 we were an all male unit. The same when I was a First Sergeant in a Signal Company in Vietnam 1967-68. I have served with female comrades in an office environment and we got along well. BUT, in my opinion, the physical fitness standard should be the same for all members, male, female and those undecided no matter which job they do because if your unit gets over run with enemy you want all hands to turn killer with the physical strength and stamina to defend yourself.
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CW4 Tim Claus
CW4 Tim Claus
>1 y
I was an 88L40 marine engineer and an 881A2 marine engineer officer during my career. A 2 mile run and sit-ups had no relevance to the physical requirements of the job. Kind of hard to run 2 miles on a 128' ocean-going tug boat or a 273' Logistics Support Vessel. There are other MOS' were the standard APFT is not highly relevant, and the current APFT may not be tough enough or have the best possible events for combat arms/combat support personnel. It is certainly a good idea to actually assess what the real physical requirements are for the various MOS' and see if there is a better way to test fitness.
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SSG James Gass
SSG James Gass
>1 y
CPL John Baugh - With a note of levity I know a fob as something for a pocket watch or the electronic device that comes with cars now for doors etc.
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SFC John Giersdorf
46
46
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Gobbledy gook. The Army has never had a PT program or PFT that had anything to do with combat (carrying a ton of gear, weapon, ammo, armor a long damn ways, short sprints with that gear and a lot of general picking up of heavy everything)... and it won't now either - because females aren't built for it. They have to lower the standards to get more females into the MOSs and worse, lower the standards for selection requirements for special schools because the Social Justice Warriors aren't going to be satisfied with one female in a unit that some COL fudged through a course and shredded the records. It sounds like a cliche, but lowering the standards has never made anything better, in any MOS.
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SGT Dale Jackson Sr.
SGT Dale Jackson Sr.
>1 y
Back when I was in 75/87, my thoughts exactly. Who going to run in a circle for two miles or in a straight line back and forth, when bullets are flying do you drive down to do 465 pushups. The PT test should consist of a obstacle course that you might encounter in a combat scenario
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SMSgt Mike Wood
SMSgt Mike Wood
>1 y
Was in the Army for almost ten years, Army Res. 3 yrs and AF Res 20 yrs. Was a medic this whole time. Activated for D.S, O.I.F and O.E.F.. Never had to carry a buddy off the field but had to be able to. Air Force Res. was assigned to Med Trans Hosp. We were in Ramstein during OIF/OEF and had to load and unload patients from OIF and OEF to Landsthul and back to Ramstein for trip to Andrews AFB. It seemed that all the heavy troops, gear, IV, med monitors, ext. were loaded and off loaded by males. Which meant over 85 - -90% Everyone understood that safety came above everything except emer med treatment. So, when I hear that men and women are equal, They are not.Upper body strength is a must in sustained operations where a lot of movement is involved. Women, for the most part, would be unable to do a 2 man stretcher lift of 200 lbs or more. Very narrow areas for entry and egress on a 44 pack bus or the aisles of an aircraft. Most women don't understand this until they are placed in this situation.
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SSG Cannon Crew Member
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
What about the army combat physical fitness test it's been around a long time?
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SFC Recruiting And Retention Nco
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
Exactly right SFC
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2d Lt Mdg Oic Plans And Training
16
16
0
I've been talking about a gender neutral fitness test for quite some time now. The Department of Defense already directed the services to evaluate the impact of allowing transgendered individuals into the military. What does that really mean? It means you have a couple years, and then you need to allow transgendered individuals into the military.

Beyond integration though, does a Paralegal need the same fitness standards as someone in the Infantry? Why are females standards so much lower than male standards? Are females not expected to need the same abilities?

We have the same issue in the Air Force, and I'm glad to see it's finally being addressed in one of the branches. The Air Force wanted to downsize, so they increased fitness standards. Now we have a greater number of people who are fit, but we've potentially kicked out a number of people who are smart. What do we need more, people who are more fit, or people who are smarter? In the Air Force, where the vast majority of us will not be on the frontlines, the answer is easy.
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SPC William Torgerson
SPC William Torgerson
>1 y
SSgt Nicole Biscoe - the military isn't for everyone.
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SGT Philip Graham
SGT Philip Graham
>1 y
If the test was to the highest standard then yes. And yes a paralegal needs the same fitness level. Regardless of MOS you are a combat soldier.
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SSG Infantryman
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
You need to be fit and smart. You never know when the day will come and your going to have to fight your way out of something.

That's part of the problem. Everyone forgets that they are a soldier first and then their MOS. There should be one standard and nothing else. It's sad that the military has gone so weak.
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CW4 Tim Claus
CW4 Tim Claus
>1 y
Always a problem during downsizing - it is easier to use the simple height/weight and APFT discriminators than to assess actual job performance in the MOS skill set. Every downsizing the military ends up with an above average group of recruiting poster perfect, boxes of rocks. Look great on parade, useless in action. Every build-up, the Army went back to competence over athleticism. Saw the same deal we are seeing now after Vietnam and the Gulf War. About due for another round of stupid.
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