You are the BN Commander: a spouse who turns in a video of her husband (one of your junior officers) having sex with a civilian. Actions?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:28:24 -0400

You have a spouse who turns in a video of her husband (one of your junior officers) having sex with a civilian. She just found the video saved on his phone and before speaking to anyone just bought the phone up to staff duty which has now made it on your desk.
You look at the video, you determine it is one of your leaders in the video. You start the proper paperwork and a couple of days later the packet it at legal getting looked over, checked out, crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.
A few days before you get the packet back the spouse come to see you on open door policy. She sits in your office and explains that she reacted off of emotion and still loves her husband. They are currently set up to attend marriage counseling and that she wants her marriage to work. She regrets turning in the phone with the video on it and doesnt want to ruin her husbands career or put the family in a financial bind.

What actions would you take?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 5:16 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:16:47 -0400

I honestly hope i never have to be in this situation because if you do nothing it will catch up to you when it all comes out, if you turn it in they will all hate you.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Aug 14 at 2014 6:17 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:17:10 -0400

Once it is at JAG, you won't be able to stop it but everything that she told you on visit 2 can be used during the sentencing phase to show movement to corrective counseling and actions. As the Commander, you are allowed to speak regarding his history with you both before and after the incident.

The JAG process should have been explained to her on the first visit.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 8:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:37:45 -0400

Once official action has begun and other authorities are notified such as JAG, you can't stop that ball from rolling. BLUF, that officer committed a UCMJ punishable offense and should face the wrath of the military justice system in order to promote good order and discipline. However, commanders have great authority and leeway to say yay or nay. At the end of the day he/she can decide to go full on or just make a big slap to the wrist (i.e. OER evaluation, OMPF MFR, negative counselings) essentially ending that officers career early. As long as good order and discipline is not adversely affected and that officer is held to the standard that he/she should be conducting themselves in the proper manner.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2014 8:39 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:39:40 -0400

My response would depend on whether the video had a date/time stamp. If you cant determine when the video was made, it may be difficult to make a definitive allegation.

It would be indeed difficult to get the genie back in the bottle after an investigation began.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 12:48 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 00:48:35 -0400

Regrettably, the missile has left the silo with no way to recall or self destruct.

The spouse let the cat out of the bag and no amount if remorse gets it back.

Maybe something can be done about the marriage but the career is ending.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Aug 15 at 2014 5:19 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:19:35 -0400

Officers get UCMJed?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 7:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 19:27:44 -0400

Give him the quick boot...threaten with court martial, and offer Chapter 10 (in lieu of CM). Fast way out... That gets us to desired end state numbers faster and keeps someone in that has not screwed up.

Response by Sgt S.P. Woodke made Aug 19 at 2014 1:53 PM

Sgt S.P. Woodke — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:53:35 -0400

get her side and intentions documented and leave well enough alone...no reason to proceed.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Aug 20 at 2014 12:06 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:06:36 -0400

Good question. To me, a conference between all parties, including the chaplain, would be a good start. (not necessarily all at the same time). Assess the qualities of the offending SM, and determine how big a part this needs to be on your plate as opposed to the emotional aspects of the offending SM and his spouse. Is there a psych evaluation that is available on the man and his spouse? or...

Send him on a special training mission with some select NCO's to help him reconsider the impact of his choices.

The Navy used to serve saltpeter with every meal.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 1:11 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 01:11:00 -0400

That would a difficult decision. But I have to take the blunt yet soft direction. I would have to inform the spouse that understand that she wants her marriage to work, that she loves her husband. But she should have thought about her decision before she ran to his chain of command. This is the military, not Burger King. You don't get it your way. Her husband knew what he was doing. He obviously did not care if she found out. Now both the spouse and the husband can share their misery together. It might be good for them. Civilians a lot of times have no clue what or how their actions affect the service member. Her decision to get him in trouble, his decision to cheat on his wife. This experience either will make their marriage stronger through the pain and misery. Or it might show them that they are better off apart. Only time will tell.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2015 7:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 19:08:13 -0400

I do believe that once I had seen the video I would have to go through with the process, what ever the out come.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Nov 15 at 2015 8:14 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 20:14:05 -0500

He COULD have asked her what she wanted to do in the beginning, and had her seek legal counsel so she knew what the ramifications are if proceeded... But what he did is correct, and unfortunately, the ball is in motion... In my opinion, she is making a last ditch effort because she suddenly became aware of what she really stands to lose... Again, just an opinion...

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Nov 15 at 2015 8:57 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 20:57:47 -0500

being it was never something I did, is adultery against the UCMJ?

Response by CAPT Tom Bersson made Nov 15 at 2015 9:22 PM

CAPT Tom Bersson — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 21:22:40 -0500

Too late. the wheels are in motion.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 15 at 2015 11:28 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 15 Nov 2015 23:28:52 -0500

I find myself scratching my head. He had to know that there was a reasonable certainty that she would find this on the phone.
Reminds me of the old adage: "The probability of someone watching is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions".
There is a price to pay for infidelity. He is going to pay for that. She wanted revenge, and got it. Now she wants to stay together, honorable, probably a mistake, but honorable. Definitely the high road. That is something that I could never forgive my spouse, but everyone is different in what they will forgive, and I get that.
Once that video was turned over, the Commander, in my opinion should act. First act would be to consult with JA. Then, the chips fall where they fall. I do not see the ability to simply "forget" that the video was presented...

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 17 at 2015 9:12 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:12:52 -0500

There are no actions you can take, once paper work is submitted it's gone, out of your hands now.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 17 at 2015 1:15 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:15:17 -0500

I would sleep on it and yell at them both, then I will chapter him.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Nov 17 at 2015 1:42 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:42:01 -0500

I would still Give the a counseling statement on the Article 134 Adultery. Counsel the OFFICER on why this is a bad for the Military and good order. Have them see the Chaplin (if they are of faith) to see what or if the church could help. Have them seek counseling. ME personally, would check in on the situation, If I couldn't mentor at least find someone in the BN that would be a good mentor for the young troop and have them stick like glue!

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 17 at 2015 1:52 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:52:34 -0500

Should of, could of , would of... The legal proceedings have begun.

Response by SPC Jared Bever made Nov 17 at 2015 2:02 PM

SPC Jared Bever — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:02:39 -0500

The UCMJ was still violated you can still help with setting up assistance from the various famly assistance groups but you can not just let go of the crime that was committed showing any kind of favoritism will cause disenchantment among the rest of the unit members.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Nov 19 at 2015 3:58 AM

SPC Brian Bay — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 03:58:45 -0500

You took the action and reported what was brought before you. Your responsibility ends there. In reality, a spouse brought a video on a phone of her husband having sex with someone other than her and if that's all that you reported then those are the facts. (I pray to God that you did not offer an opinion in your report that you represented as fact)

With any command inquiry/investigation, it's up to whoever prosecutes to determine WHEN said sex act took place (was it prior to the marriage?). Other factors include: what was the nature of the marriage; was it an "open relationship" and the spouse was the one filming the beautiful bean footage?

My ex-wife played the DV card a number of times in a "Revolving door" manner. After getting tired of it, I finally asked to go the MP's voluntarily with the command, exercised my right to remain silent and let the investigation take it's course. I followed legal counsel's advice and maintained consistency in my account of the alleged events while fully cooperating with the investigation. My case was referred to a 7-person review board and it was unanimously determined that I did not do anything wrong.

The best thing that you can do for the soldier is to ensure that he seeks legal advice and ensure that safety measures are in place for the family along with any resources that are needed. Much of this is going to have to be delegated to someone else because you need to separate yourself from this situation since you may be interviewed and/or later called as a witness to testify (in both military Courts Martial and possibly civilian divorce trial).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2017 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:45:12 -0400

Too late. Poor actions on both sides. BN CDR has his hands tied at this point.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Aug 30 at 2017 2:03 PM

SSG Ralph Watkins — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:03:29 -0400

While in Iraq our battalion commander was having an affair with his female Iraqi interpreter. He was married. He used to walk down to the checkpoint holding hands yet. Nobody said a word. He took her on leave back to the states & somebody in his command back home saw what was going on. He was allowed to return to Iraq & the brigade in charge of us was notified. They made sure to relieve him immediately & allowed him to languish in a cubby hole building for weeks before shipping him home for UCMJ actions. As an enlisted person seeing what was going on, we not only lost respect for that LTC but the entire battalion command structure. They were enabling him while violated Army regs.

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Aug 30 at 2017 2:04 PM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:04:09 -0400

Article 15 expedited

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Aug 30 at 2017 2:06 PM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:06:00 -0400

Not administer by the BC but the Brigade Commander

Response by COL William Oseles made Aug 30 at 2017 2:41 PM

COL William Oseles — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:41:47 -0400

Too late.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Aug 30 at 2017 2:51 PM

PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:51:02 -0400

I would STILL continue the paperwork. He know better then to put lust before vows and also he disrespected those around him-Wife, children,unit. I would demote, extra duty and put him in the proverbial 'dog house' both via the wallet and restrictions. Give the wife all the help and resources needed and him, well...too late, paperwork is processed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2017 4:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:46:10 -0400

Unless things have changed or are different for officers JAG will bully the SM but in all honesty it is a winnable battle for him. Step one is for the commander to counsel the subordinate to end the relationship. If the relationship was then continued there is grounds for UCMJ punishment. I would advise him to speak to TDS and do his homework on UCMJ. I have seen this battle won a few times before. Not to say I am all for cheating but JAG will bypass steps and end someone's career if they do not know they actually have a leg to stand on.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 30 at 2017 4:46 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:46:27 -0400

My initial reaction is to say right and wrong still exist. Having sexual relations with a woman not his wife is still a violation of the UCMJ. The injured party in the case is not the wife, but the Service. The officer has acted in a way that discredited his rank and the uniform. Additionally, I'm concerned that the wife's conciliatory attitude may be due to mental and/or physical abuse.

I would hold the disciplinary action on my desk. Time for more advice. I would consult the JAG as to my options and the results of their investigation. Also, I would ask the wife to consent to my speaking with the marriage counselor. My questions for the counselor address my concerns about abuse. If I have the option to suspend the disciplinary action and the counselor reports the wife may be sincere and acting without coercion, then I would hold the disciplinary action. I'd counsel the officer and let him know he has 30 days to get his life de-screwed, break it off with the "other woman," and cleave to his wife as his marriage vows require.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2017 7:47 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 19:47:00 -0400

GySgt Olson, well said. The LTs actions affect good order and discipline if they are left unpunished.

Response by MSgt Chandos Clapper made Aug 30 at 2017 11:38 PM

MSgt Chandos Clapper — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:38:05 -0400

I have no respect for anyone who cheats on their spouse, especially as a leader who is expected to set the standards for our subordinates. Just my opinion.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2017 9:49 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 09:49:26 -0400

Adultery is a UCMJ violation... I think you know what the right thing to do is, no matter how unpleasant it is to do (and am I the only one who finds it ironic that the soldier in the picture has his face blacked out but not his rank and name?).

Response by SSgt Thomas Phillips made Aug 31 at 2017 10:57 AM

SSgt Thomas Phillips — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 10:57:06 -0400

This is a moment where all you can do is look her in the eye and apologize. "Ma'am, there is nothing I can do now. It is out of my hands."

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Aug 31 at 2017 12:35 PM

CPO Glenn Moss — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:35:36 -0400

Technically, once a violation of the UCMJ is brought to the attention of the command, it cannot simply be dismissed. You have knowledge of a violation of the UCMJ, not following through could subject yourself to administrative or legal actions, actions as well.

THAT SAID...if the spouse does NOT wish to pursue this, then charges could possibly be "withdrawn without prejudice". What this means is that the charges are dropped BUT the command essentially reserves the right to re-prefer charges at any time as they see fit.

THAT SAID...I'm not an attorney, never was either as a civilian or in the military.

But the BN Commander DOES have access to a legal staff from which to obtain advice.

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Aug 31 at 2017 3:39 PM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:39:25 -0400

Sounds like some stupid ass high school shit lol

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 23 at 2021 7:27 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 23 Jan 2021 19:27:03 -0500

I think I would sleep on it before making a decision.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 23 at 2021 11:32 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 23 Jan 2021 23:32:38 -0500

The genie is out of the bottle, I would think.

Response by MSgt Chandos Clapper made Jan 24 at 2021 1:43 AM

MSgt Chandos Clapper — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 01:43:44 -0500

Adultery was against the UCMJ when I was AD in the 80 and 90’s.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Jan 30 at 2021 12:49 PM

COL Victor Hagan — Sat, 30 Jan 2021 12:49:29 -0500

Having commanded a battalion, I would have directed my XO to conduct an informal 15-6 to determine the facts surrounding the video. That video could have been filmed before they got married. I also would have directed my Chaplain to setup an appointment to speak with the couple in their home to assess the situation. Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, I have a duty to take care of my Soldiers and their families. If the video was taken during the marriage then I would confer with my brigade commander about my plan of action. It is very likely that he/she might recommend administrative punishment instead of UCMJ. Especially since the spouse is now changing her mind about trying to save her marriage.