Would you consider Colleges as a paid service offering an unrealistic opportunity?

MSG Wally Carmichael — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:30:43 -0500

No college will ever guarantee a job let alone an income upon graduation. In fact, no college would even guarantee you graduate. The same is true about any franchise, investment or any other business opportunity. Only 59% of new students complete their 4 year degree. The same is true about the home business industry. Yet, many are quick to say "Those home businesses don't work". Your thoughts?

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 29 at 2016 2:29 AM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:29:50 -0500

When my daughter, (a great kid, who did well in school), graduated from High School I gave her a choice; a three year enlistment or three years in a blue collar non-fast food job, then I would pay for school. She wasn't happy. All her friends were going off to college, paid for by mom and dad. She got a job as a 911 dispatcher. She kept in touch with her friends and saw them one by one fail out, or be dismissed for poor conduct. She realized they didn't care about college because they didn't know what they wanted to do, and they weren't invested in it. At the end of two years she started college part-time and paid for it herself, without getting any loans. Most importantly, at the end of three years, she said she understood what I and my wife had done and she wouldn't let me and her mother help her financially. She said it gave her laser focus when she was in class. In six years she completed her bachelors degree with honors and is now a stay at home mom and volunteer paramedic (her field of study). The problem isn't the colleges or universities. They will put out the garbage courses, degrees and certificates that we allow. If kids had to do what my daughter did, they wouldn't accept classes on Lady Gaga's impact on the entertainment industry.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 2:53 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:53:01 -0500

Nothing guarantees a job. College at least gives some tools to make you more competitive for the market. All though to really take advantage of college it really depends on what you major in and what you want to do. For instance, you are more likely to get a job majoring in something technical. In fact in some cases it does not have to be a 4 year degree. In fields like IT and Electronics Technician, that can be accomplished in a two year institution. Big thing is to find ways to really learn your field. In most cases these days that involves getting internships and really taking your education to another level. If all you do is just go to class pass tests and do homework, you may not be that good at what you want to do. literally it takes being immersed in your subject matter. For me I went to school to be an electrical engineer. I did well on tests and the lab, but I knew I was going to be a pilot in the Air Force. So I did not take a real heavy senior project that could have got me really involved in different aspects in engineering. As a result I am no where competitive in EE as people who really got deep into the subject matter. If I want to be a Engineer I would have to go get a masters in it just so that I can get re ingrained in the industry. I have no such desires so I became a camera op for the motion picture industry and a part time commercial pilot instead.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 7:00 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 07:00:13 -0500

I think college serves a different purpose than what it used to. School effectively extends childhood. In our history kids worked the fields and got a primary education (grade school), the whole concept of a summer break [that we still have in most schools] revolved around harvest time. The industrial revolution created factory jobs and more school came with it. School both extends the time a kid can be a kid and indirectly teaches them about factory life [stand in line, follow the rules]. Today's economy is information based. Kids are put on a pedestal, we are in the generation where everyone is a winner and everyone gets a trophy. 1993 Bill Clinton's expansion of federal tuition loans means that most everyone gets a chance to go to college to work in the new information age. This may have also effectively made 'education' a huge business, note rising cost of tuition since the 90's.

As time passes the age at which we push the world's grief onto a kid (a job) gets kicked down the road. I think we are effectively making the 18-22 year old more of a protected 'kid' than an adult. College gets to be another stepping stone to kinda sorta figure out what being an adult is like.

To answer your question though, the value of a degree is cheapened by the great number of degrees out there, the quality of institutions [degree mills], and the fact that we have unlimited sources of academic knowledge [for example you can be a fine computer scientist without ever getting a degree thanks to the internet].

I like the idea of college for engineering, medical and hard sciences. I hold 2 liberal type degrees and they have been paper drills and worthless [other than checking the box for a masters if I want to be an LTC]. I'm now in year 2 of a comp sci degree and its fabulously difficult and useful, my inbox is regularly spammed by recruiters.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 9:26 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 09:26:48 -0500

Hi, MSG Carmichael.

If one considers college as only an opportunity to get a job, and feels entitled to a job just because one graduated, then yes, it runs the risk of presenting an unrealistic opportunity. However, despite a job market that might insist otherwise, college was never a guarantee of post-education employment. It’s an occasion to expand your knowledge of the world around you, teach and practice critical thinking skills, and organize and apply your thoughts in a manner in which others can understand your point of view. If you’re just going to college to increase your employment prospects, then all of those skills you used in college will help, but will guarantee nothing. If you’re expecting a job only because you have a degree hanging on your wall, then you went to college for the wrong reasons, and you can expect to be disappointed.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 9:54 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 09:54:11 -0500

Education is good for the traditional MD, Legal, Science based...but to get a degree just because the older generation says to is a complete waste of money. Trade schools and tech skills are way more valuable.
As far as "Home based" buisnes or "Network Marketing" is concerned. It's the most pure aspect of business and offers no ceiling for promotion and where else can you go from a couple of hundred dollars to thousands of dollars in a month?
I have a degree, my wife is highly educated in the medical world as a RN with multiple specialties and we both also run 2-3 different "Network Marketing" businesses to cover investment opportunities, "play money" paying off school debt. You name it. Most of the people on our team are all college grads to include a no shit Rocket Scientist...haha no lie.
So to close, yes education is good if you are using it for the right reasons. And no you don't need to go the closed minded route of the corporate world to be successful and yes "Network Marketing" is a great route. It does require personal discipline and you only get what you put in. Do your homework and talk to successful individuals not the ones who have failed. Obviously they are jaded and will tell you it's a scam, they just don't want you to succeed because if they can't do it nobody can...complete BS. "Network Marketing" is a $157 Billion industry...let that sink in...the company I am currently a distributer for is doing a $Billion this year alone.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 11:03 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:03:28 -0500

I think it's safe to say that a college degree isn't what it was touted to be thirty years ago. Neither of my parents had one, and therefore "assumed" that with the sheepskin...I'd be "set for life". As it turns out, yes, my degree has opened doors...but it wasn't a permanent doorstop to the effects of economics, personal decision, etc. Where I think we have gone wrong is in assuming that "any" degree is a useful investment in one's future...and more to the point, that there are not alternatives to the "traditional" paths to success. Students graduated in the 90's and early 00's thinking they'd be "managers" on day one...with some kind of "guarantee". Students graduating now are assuming they'll be in debt forever, and working far below their education level...unless we become quasi-socialist. Both ideas are incorrect. The facts are these; the universities are offering degrees designed to allow more students to pay more tuition...there are far more graduates than equivalent jobs on the back end. Smart high school students will take a realistic look, not at what campus they want to live on, what "college town" they want to party in, or where their friends are going...but rather, on where they have to be in five, seven and fifteen years to achieve their goals. If that means working for wages to gain experience/certifications towards making an eventual associates or bachelor's degree useful...so be it. If that means postponing marriage, children, etc...so be it. Parents too, have to adjust their expectations; if my son has to work for minimum wage for five years to "prepare" himself for college and future advancement...so be it.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 11:42 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:42:53 -0500

Much like starting a business, college is what the individual puts into it. Pick a quality school, a subject you're passionate abouy, and give it your all. No get rich/successful quick plan works.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 12:17 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:17:47 -0500

I don't believe the opportunity is unrealistic, however, it's entirely up to the individual to make the most of their education and to ensure that their liberal arts degree doesn't put them into soul-crushing debt. You're investing in yourself.
Part of the issue is that in the fight to stay relevant, universities keep adding unnecessary programs and services which are attractive to students but end up costing them in terms of tuition. When I went to Univ of Illinois, they just put up this massive 3 story recreation facility aptly named the "ARC". Yeah, it was great, but my fellow classmates not on a full-ride ROTC scholarship probably could have done without the $100 million recreation facility.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Feb 29 at 2016 12:38 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:38:35 -0500

Especially in the non-technical fields, a degree serves a barometer of ones ability to manage time & workloads. This being said, it's a good tool for prospective employers to filtrate candidates in the labor pool. The School of Hard Knocks teaches on the "real world" platform --and occasionally validates the worth of ones degree.

Interesting question, MSG Wally Carmichael. Most of our best education doesn't happen a classroom!

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 29 at 2016 12:40 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:40:05 -0500

When I was working as a professional guide I had two brothers working for me. One graduated that spring, the other due the following year. Neither one knew what they wanted to do. I told them don't waste your time. If you have no idea what you want to do, join the service, don't waste the time like a lot of kids do. As it ended up, both joined, one the Air Force, he did one hitch, got out and landed a great job in electronics and is going all over the country, very successful. The other joined the Marines, liked it so well, he decided to make a career. Their mom wrote me several times after and told me how glad she was for my influence as her boys were both very successful.

Coming out of high school most kids have no idea what they want. Most waste the first year or so of college, and occur debt as well. Getting some idea of the world is a good idea. Don't waste your time.

Home businesses, a person has to be very dedicated and a very aggressive person to make it work. You've got to have good work ethics and a good product which will sell or move.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 9:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:37:20 -0500

I think it's important to research the jobs growth potential, pay scale, duties, daily requirements, rate of burnout and so on in order to answer this question. I also think state schools serve as a good option for those who haven't quiet figured these things out...