Would you confiscate firearms from civilians if ordered?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:12:35 -0500

With the current situation in Virginia and the threat of using the National Guard to enforce gun confiscation, if you were ordered to confiscate weapons from civilians would you? If you were in the VANG and were given this order, what would be your course of action? PFC Private RallyPoint Member SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG(P) James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG Private RallyPoint Member Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish SGT Ben Keen

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 23 at 2019 1:13 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:13:58 -0500

I would not do it. It is a violation of the 2nd amendment and therefore an illegal order.

Response by CW3 Harvey K. made Dec 23 at 2019 1:17 PM

CW3 Harvey K. — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:17:10 -0500

Refusal on the basis it is an illegal, unconstitutional order. If you take an oath to the Constitution, you have the implied right to interpret it in such an individual case, until the Supreme Court rules on the question.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 1:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:19:51 -0500

Great question SGT Voye.

How about a question to Veterans and active duty personnel: if a member of the NG come to your home to confiscate your weapons will you comply?

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Dec 23 at 2019 1:24 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:24:01 -0500

Excellent question.

At the end of the day if any such laws are passed there will almost certainly be an injunction while it works through the judicial system. Whatever the outcome of that process is, it will be the de-facto Constitutional outcome, regardless of any of our feelings on the matter. That's our Constitutional system and we either believe in it or we don't.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 1:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:26:45 -0500

Negative. This order would violate the 2nd Amendment. Therefor, it is an illegal order. If I were a member of the VANG, and ordered to take them, I would not comply with a verbal, and very firm, NO. And then hand in my rank before walking out the door

Response by TSgt George Rodriguez made Dec 23 at 2019 1:33 PM

TSgt George Rodriguez — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:33:47 -0500

I would recite them the article under the UCMJ that I can refuse a direct order from my superiors if I deem it illegal.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Dec 23 at 2019 1:34 PM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:34:30 -0500

It violates the 2nd Amendment, therefore an unlawful order. I would not comply with it.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Dec 23 at 2019 1:37 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:37:04 -0500

I would resign, the confiscation of guns is unconstitutional. I'm surprised no one has challenged this in court yet, or if someone has to wait for the actual order to be given and disobeyed first.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Dec 23 at 2019 2:00 PM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:00:39 -0500

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Dec 23 at 2019 2:22 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:22:20 -0500

That is a very good question.
Right now, as a civilian, I would say no. I would not do it.
15 years ago, as a private, I don't know if I would follow the orders of my commander on this. I hope I would say no, but I'm not sure.
Also, I can't think of a single NCO or Commander I have met that would give such an unlawful order. None.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Dec 23 at 2019 2:28 PM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:28:39 -0500

Ain't going to happen.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Dec 23 at 2019 3:12 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:12:10 -0500

The Guard doesn't have enough Man Power... what if the Power Grid goes out or Transportation hubs and routes are destroyed. Of course the State patrols will be busy protecting the politicians and their familes... I am too old..I will watch it on TV... oh I forgot the power grid is down...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 23 at 2019 3:25 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:25:54 -0500

Cody think for an minute- 1. It violates the Constitution. 2. US Troops are not allowed to work/serve as Police in CONUS. During Natural disasters you can assist them, you can stop folks and asked questions, you can even detain them- but only police can take them off or arrest them. You can not take something from them.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 23 at 2019 3:32 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:32:01 -0500

This question has been asked and answered.

Just as background: Title 10 forces would not be able to do this unless Posse Commitatus was lifted by the President under the Insurrection Act. ARNG on State Active Duty under control of the Governor may be able to conduct law enforcement activities. The Coast Guard may be able to enforce law under Title 14.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/operation-vigilant-guard-if-you-were-asked-to-go-door-to-door-and-confiscate-personal-weapons-from-law-abiding-citizens-what-would-do

“Operation Vigilant Guard” If you were asked to go door to door and confiscate personal weapons...

http://patriotnewswire.com/2015/03/breaking-national-guard-going-door-to-door-confiscating-guns

Response by SPC Jordan Brown made Dec 23 at 2019 3:42 PM

SPC Jordan Brown — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:42:18 -0500

Unlawful orders are not valid orders and therefore should not be followed.
I would never follow an order to take firearms from law abiding citizens.

Response by CW3 John Himes made Dec 23 at 2019 4:31 PM

CW3 John Himes — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:31:55 -0500

Nope

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 4:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:37:32 -0500

It's not a lawful order....violation against the 2nd amendment, and lastly in whole it is a violation against the oath of enlistment along with officers oath of office because everyone swears with their right hand to support and defend the constitution of the united states...so someone in the military period does that... they've already failed their first and most important mission.....give that order and you are no longer a service member in my book....and you might as well not wear that uniform again

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 5:55 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:55:38 -0500

We take an oath to defend the US Constitution, that is the document itself, not a person nor party. An order that countermands the Constitution is an illegal order and any officer or politician who makes that order becomes a domestic threat.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Dec 23 at 2019 6:04 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 18:04:01 -0500

An emphatic NO!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 6:41 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 18:41:05 -0500

No.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Dec 23 at 2019 6:41 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 18:41:54 -0500

The order to disarm and take away a legal firearm from anyone would be in violation of the 2nd. amendment. The order is illegal and can be disobeyed but not ignored. The most Sr. Mit. person present should make a written record, with a witness, they refused to carry out the Order and why!
In this event, the most senior officer/commander needs to be advised accordingly.

There is a federal ruling, more than one, that allows the federal military to aid and assist civil law enforcement in certain situations. Crowd control, boarder security, natural disasters and riot control etc. The governor can call up the N.G. but the question is, would the guard's Commanding General
carry out and execute an unlawful order? Best consult his JAG people at lengh and the State Attorney
General's Office.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Dec 23 at 2019 8:21 PM

SSG George Holtje — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:21:53 -0500

The Oath I took was to first support and defend the Constitution of the United States and second obey the orders of the President and the Officers appointed above me. The Constitution trumps the rest. Speaking of Trump, I thinking he’s polishing a boot to put it somewhere over this mess.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 9:42 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 21:42:13 -0500

No. It is an unlawful order.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 11:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:10:08 -0500

I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic. And that is definitely an infringement of the constitution.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 12:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 12:11:30 -0500

That is situational. I would not go into someone's house to confiscate weapons because of an unconstitutional law passed in the State House. If these folks were barricaded and shooting at people, then they have broken the law and need to be disarmed and arrested. Don't be an Id-10-T.

Response by PO2 George Frasier made Dec 25 at 2019 12:58 AM

PO2 George Frasier — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 00:58:16 -0500

Nat'l Guard and Sheriffs have given an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, and the firearms ownership (except for convicted felons) is a Constitutional right. Firearms CONTROL only works on lawful citizens. Criminals WILL get firearms "on the street" just like drugs.

American military have sworn an oath to follow lawful orders, which means that If the order is unlawful, it should NOT be obeyed. Because somebody "complained" or was "offended" by somebody else having a firearm, that gun owner should not have firearms seized without PROOF of wrongdoing by that person.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Dec 25 at 2019 8:27 PM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 20:27:10 -0500

No, wouldn't do it

Response by SSgt Wallace Smith made Jan 10 at 2020 4:03 PM

SSgt Wallace Smith — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:03:16 -0500

No, that’s one of those commands that would be tricky. Messing with the US Constitution issues isn’t any place for a soldier to be. For the US Armed Forces to turn our guns inwards is a very nasty situation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2020 10:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 10:31:37 -0500

Nope. It not only would violate the Posse Commitatus Act, but it would violate the Constitution. We took an oath to defend and uphold it he Constitution against enemies foreign AND domestic. An order to act in a law enforcement capacity and confiscating legally owned firearms from citizens is an unlawful order based on the above cited, so we would be under zero obligation to follow it. Further, I think we’d have a responsibility to defend the citizens from such actions that may be perpetrated by other organizations.