Would You Article 15 An Entire Squad?

2015-12-20T18:30:26-05:00

I gave my section a "No Fail" directive on Friday, told them to get it done over the weekend, and that I had to turn in information (the "No Fail" directive I gave) on Monday morning. I texted everyone over the weekend as a reminder. Most of my section has not responded thus far.

Would you recommend UCMJ for all who failed to respond?

Or would a simple counseling suffice?

Response by SSG Lisa Rendina made Dec 20 at 2015 6:34 PM

2015-12-20T18:34:45-05:00

A text is not a valid for if communication in my view. Too many things can go wrong. Verbal communication is the only way in my book.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 6:34 PM

2015-12-20T18:34:47-05:00

Punishment should fit the crime. Is the information you need to turn in critical? Or is it routine? Let your conscience be your guide. Always be fair in punishment and reward.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 6:37 PM

2015-12-20T18:37:15-05:00

I think it depends on if you have had a history of this issue with your squad. If not then I think a counseling and some corrected action would be sufficient. If this issue is on going I would hold the team leaders accountable for there teams

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-12-20T18:40:50-05:00

What?!?! Have you posed this question to your first line supervisor? Did you annotate any of this directive on a 4856?

Response by SSG John Caples made Dec 20 at 2015 6:41 PM

2015-12-20T18:41:50-05:00

to get what done and what is the No Fail task ? Depends on what it is and how severe

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Dec 20 at 2015 6:42 PM

2015-12-20T18:42:31-05:00

Did you make the promise of UCMJ referral with the no fail directive? If so you put yourself in a bind. At that point you have to make the recommendation and face the possibility that the Commander just might follow through with it. To not follow through would hurt your credibility. The unfortunate circumstance is that following through will degrade moral. If you didn't make a promise of UCMJ referral with the order then you have more leeway. One of the best ways to get their attention is to take their time. Since they didn't perform the order over the weekend you can do something like coordinate with the 1SG and bring them in over the next weekend to perform the task, possibly multiple times. Corrective training should be topical, and this happens to fit this situation.
*typo edit

Response by SSG Clarence Blackburn made Dec 20 at 2015 6:54 PM

2015-12-20T18:54:51-05:00

Ok this is the problem with technology now days we are always using Facebook, or texting. How about a good old fashion Call that way you know for sure they are getting your orders, and that if they have questions you can answer them. Sorry but I'm Old school if I can't see your people face to face at least I can call you and get a SITREP.

Response by SSG Colt Henderson made Dec 20 at 2015 6:58 PM

2015-12-20T18:58:51-05:00

Maybe you should try calling instead of texting. If it isn't important enough to pickup the phone and actually call. It isn't important enough to article 15 them. Yes they should have responded to the text but if they don't and it is actually important then maybe you should put in some effort.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-12-20T19:00:11-05:00

I don't know what the task was. was it mission critical? I might fire a team leader though.

If I was the command team, one of my biggest questions would be what steps did the squad leader take to ensure completion.

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made Dec 20 at 2015 7:18 PM

2015-12-20T19:18:49-05:00

I never relied on txt messages. They may not go through or they get lost in all the other messages people get on the weekends. Next step is calling the ones who have not responded. If you call them several times and they don't answer then you could do the counseling in order to reinforce the importance of maintaining communication. I wouldn't go any further than that though.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 7:20 PM

2015-12-20T19:20:28-05:00

What about having a 1700 meet at the unit on Sunday to verify that the task was complete. 12 years ago if my PSG needed a rask done and it was due that monday, he would have us come in Sunday at 1700 and the included bring your uniforms and boots ready to go.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-12-20T19:34:32-05:00

Absolutely not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 7:52 PM

2015-12-20T19:52:42-05:00

If it is this inportant, why did you let it go till monday? I would have had the COB AFTER i got all the required information.

Take 5 min write it down, back brief me and see you monday. Im sorry, if you dont make the requirements you cant go!

".... You see that little alien space ship?!? Is is nocked over?!? Then you dont get the unicorn!!!! Uuhh-oooo, somebodys got a frowny face!! ". :(

Response by SSG Skylur Britz made Dec 20 at 2015 7:54 PM

2015-12-20T19:54:29-05:00

From my experience if you try to art 15 someone over a text it's gonna be difficult. I've gotten in trouble for not responding to texts that never went through. If the task was given to them with a no fail date, barring something that was out of their control, and you told them that an art 15 was what would happen if they failed to do so, you have to follow through or be known as the NCO that doesn't follow through.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-12-20T21:04:33-05:00

Article 15 is your LAST course of action! As an NCO you should be able to resolve the issue through other means. Recommending an article 15 is telling your commander you have used everything in your power and cannot resolve the issue.

2nd thing. TEXT IS NOT COMMUNICATION. Call your Soldiers, confirm that they got the information and understand the requirement.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 9:20 PM

2015-12-20T21:20:56-05:00

I have strong opinions on the misuse of NJP in all branches. I can't view all the comments so it's hard to tell what the context is, however NJP should not be the go to in the tool kit when strong leadership can go a lot further.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Dec 20 at 2015 9:33 PM

2015-12-20T21:33:55-05:00

Never there is always a Nexus a root cause of something to act out wholesale is the same as the Squad acting out... And for you to consider this oh well you have lost control of your unit....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 9:35 PM

2015-12-20T21:35:22-05:00

If your entire squad failed to do something then you have failed them. If your section failed and you were putting them all in for UCMJ then you should be getting UCMJ as well. I do not like to lead by text or email. I would go see them in person, have a meeting over the weekend with them or call them and talk to them on the phone to make sure they understood what was expected. If they all fail then it is my fault if only one or two fail then you hold them accountable. hold the whole squad to that and get the high speed guys to take care of the slacker or counseling/UCMJ depending on what the problem is. Also get your team leaders involved and have them take care of there guys to make sure that things are happening as they should. Open up communication with your soldiers. That is the best that I can say with the information provided. best of luck.

Response by SSG James Hunt made Dec 20 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-12-20T22:49:02-05:00

What is a SSG in the military doing texting his troops. You should be doing a face.to face with them. That is the only way to be a leader.

Response by SSG Michael Hartsfield made Dec 20 at 2015 11:26 PM

2015-12-20T23:26:56-05:00

Like my ole Smoke used to say "A text or email will not save you." It's always better to get a F2F or have your Soldiers back brief you later. Article 15s are lazy way to disciple Soldiers IMHO because so many people want to use that as a disciplinary tactic FIRST instead of counseling or mentoring.
But this has been beaten into the ground so deep, it's turned to oil so.....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-12-20T23:45:43-05:00

As technology has advanced in modern society, leaders are depending more and more on electronic devices to keep their soldiers informed or give notes, etc. However, I believe it makes you a less approachable leader. I have found that if I have a face to face with my soldiers at least once a day, I can lead them more effectively. If I gather my section or squad all at once to put out information, I can truly tell if the soldiers and subordinate soldiers understand the task via their body language and back briefing.

As a leader, you must accomplish the "no fail" task as described before Monday morning. If you had the information on friday, it seems that could have been release criteria for your section before the weekend, so you could gather all information and insure that it is to standard before Monday morning.

But as for the original question of if you should use UCMJ or counseling to correct action if not completed; no, I don't believe so. If the task does not get completed, it is a direct reflection of not only your leadership, but that of your subordinate leaders (if there are any). Counseling can be a very effective tool if utilized properly, but if you have to threaten your section with UCMJ in order for them to accomplish tasks, it is a much bigger issue than should be discussed on public forum.

Response by SCPO Joshua I made Dec 21 at 2015 12:05 AM

2015-12-21T00:05:36-05:00

Ok... I disagree with the whole "text is not communication" sort of thing. I text my Sailors all the time, they text me with updates on tasks and I text or call them with updates or new tasking. If I don't happen to be in the shop when they need information or I need information.

It's a new world, there are lots of forms of communication available. It's not the form of communication, it's the lack of leadership.

Here's the problem -- you gave them a task on Friday and you're expecting them to accomplish the task on their off time during the weekend -- that's not going to fly at NJP. You don't have the authority to do it for one, and it's really poor time management on your part for another.

You should have extended working hours on Friday if you needed information on Friday. Failing that, you have to lead, and leadership is more than tasking.

I worked for an old crusty Boatswain's Mate Senior Chief back when I was a young DS2 in the Navy, and one of the things he taught me was that taking a Sailor to the CO for NJP was going to the CO and telling the CO that I am such a poor leader I can't fix this Sailor and I want an O-6 to do it for me. At that point, why have the NCO? The NCO who can't provide basic leadership and get basic tasking done and thinks that tasking his section to do it on their personal time is a good idea is not providing basic leadership to his section.

I've written a couple of report chits in my Naval career, but not very many, and all of them were for misconduct that either by instruction or custom were required to go to the CO for adjudication. I don't write report chits for not getting tasking done, that's on me as a leader.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 21 at 2015 1:21 AM

2015-12-21T01:21:07-05:00

If it was that important why did you (a) wait until Friday afternoon to give them their instructions and (b) why weren't you there with them at some point over the
weekend to demonstrate the importance of the task? There has to be consequences if your instructions were not followed, but before you decide those consequences, I think you should look in the mirror. You're troops are a reflection of you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 5:13 AM

2015-12-21T05:13:24-05:00

It depends on if missing the deadline has a ripple effect. i.e. Suspense was for ur PSG then 1SG then CSM etc... Just make sure the punishment fits the crime. And to SSG Lisa Rendina, a text message is a valid form of communication it follows along with emails as long as the soldiers acknowledges the text, consider it a lawful order.

Response by SFC Bryson Amaral made Dec 21 at 2015 5:38 AM

2015-12-21T05:38:28-05:00

Wall to wall counseling? Oh wait new army..lol did you call them and leave a VM..email? I've had this problem with my soldiers in the past and i am guard. Like I told them in this day and age everyone has a smart phone and it's connected to their hip....so,there's no reason they shouldn't of gotten your text. I like to use text and email because it's a record of communication..made it easier to recommend ucmj for my people

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 21 at 2015 6:39 AM

2015-12-21T06:39:04-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I really have a problem with a "No Fail" directive where an Art. 15 is an option and you are not directly leading to insure the task is completed. Something as serious as NJP can wreck a soldiers career in this new Army and yet you are camping out at Fort Living Room for the weekend while your soldiers are working.

Leaders do not tell, they lead. If being a NCO was a matter of just threatening NJP to every soldier that failed and nobody ever failed, there would be no need for NCOs. Officers can make threats just as good as you. You are there to ensure your soldiers don't fail.

My suggestion would be pull up the NCO Creed. Read it and come up with your own answer based off it.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Dec 21 at 2015 7:32 AM

2015-12-21T07:32:57-05:00

I want to NJP the Joint Chiefs.

Walt

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Dec 21 at 2015 7:43 AM

2015-12-21T07:43:58-05:00

You seriously want to give Article 15s because your Soldiers didn't respond to a text? How about calling them? If they all failed, then you have also failed since you are their leader. Are you going to put yourself in for an Article 15?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-12-21T08:06:28-05:00

Some of y'all commenting on this discussion acting like you all have never texted your soliders to disseminate info.. Come on now..

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 21 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-12-21T08:21:28-05:00

You have to look at yourself first as a leader to see what may have went wrong for no one in the squad to have followed your orders.I don't think texting them was the best form of communication. Hold off on the Article 15s until you find out what's really going on.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 21 at 2015 8:40 AM

2015-12-21T08:40:27-05:00

When we start talking about NJP, we are looking at items that have escalated from Administrative to Criminal.

You are literally, not figuratively putting people's careers on the line.

Furthermore more a Squad cannot own a Task. A leader owns a task. A Squad accomplished a task, and the failure or accomplishment of said task may reflect poorly upon all, the blame cannot be shared by participants. It can only go to the Owner, or Leader. "You can delegate Authority, not Responsibility."

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Dec 21 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-12-21T09:54:29-05:00

Here is my question. What makes you already assume that your Soldiers didn't complete the task? As others have said, texting is not a valid form of communication. It is left up to interpretation. At the meeting on Friday was it explained to the Soldiers for the need of this information, Or was it as you say a "No Fail Directive" with out the "And here is why?" If it was then you may be surprised. Unless the entire section just decided to say "Screw it, I'm not doing it." then there would be a little more investigating to see why. Do let us know the outcome.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 21 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-12-21T10:02:32-05:00

Why as an NCO in charge of a section are you texting your Soldiers about something that it is so important that it is no fail. If anyone should receive UCMJ it is you for failing them and failing to follow up on your Soldiers. Just because you took the lazy and easy way out is unacceptable. Whatever happened to calling and talking to your Soldiers. The phone works a lot better than a text. A text is easily overlooked and not seen for quite a while. You call them, they will answer because the OH SHIT SSG whoever is calling. I need to take this because it may be important.
Another problem is why on God's Green Earth are you looking for guidance on such an important issue that is time sensitive here on Rally Point. You have an NCO Support channel, I would suggest that you use that before Rally Point.
You owe it to your Soldiers to lead them, train them and help them. Maybe they didn't fully understand the task. Maybe they ran into problems with the task. But, you won't know because you took the lazy way out and texted your Soldiers instead of talking to them. Be a leader that is in charge, not one that is lazy and doesn't like to talk to their Soldiers.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 21 at 2015 10:56 AM

2015-12-21T10:56:43-05:00

What we have here is a failure to communicate. (I always wanted to use that line) Had one or two failed (to obey an order?) UCMJ should be applied to them as individuals. Inasmuch as the whole group failed, I am sensing a failure in leadership. A rebellion perhaps? I believe there is a need for a serious sit down to clear the air...

Response by SGT Charles Bunch made Dec 21 at 2015 11:26 AM

2015-12-21T11:26:48-05:00

Were you personally with them to complete the task? Or just giving orders to get it done?

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 21 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-12-21T11:42:38-05:00

During the in between time I would have been in direct communication with my team leaders. I guessing you have team leaders, correct? Delegation of authority should go down the chain of command. Who did you leave in Charge? If your squad failed, then you have failed as a leader. Maybe you need to step back and assess your leadership style.

Response by SGT Del Lavature made Dec 21 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-12-21T11:43:47-05:00

No offense to you but I gotta question the leadership. I've never heard of a no fail directive and you haven't disclosed what it was. What warranted a no fail directive? Sounds like you lost the respect of you entire squad. I'd be looking in the mirror and ask what I can do to be a better leader. In all actuality you have failed along with them. If you received no text back you should move made a barracks visit. Just my opinion.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-12-21T12:13:54-05:00

No disrespect intended...but I know what I would've said if my division chief brought me UCMJ on an entire watch section.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-12-21T14:46:16-05:00

Chesty Puller is rolling over in his grave.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-12-21T17:19:22-05:00

Do me a favor and think like an NCO. They didn't accomplish their mission you help them no matter what accomplish their mission. Embarrassing.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Dec 21 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-12-21T18:47:32-05:00

You can not issue an Article 15. That is for the Company Commander. How would your CO see your attempt to Article 15 everyone in your squad? You are on pretty dangerous ground here. Look in the mirror - what is going on with you that an entire squad will ignore you? There are some excellent suggestions on here - heed them.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Dec 21 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-12-21T20:27:00-05:00

I seriously have to say WTF on this one......Maybe you should have been there seeing the task was done properly and to the Standard instead of issuing a No Fail e-mail or what ever...laffs you have clearly failed as a Leader and I use that term loosely...laffs

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-12-21T23:01:49-05:00

Article 15s are lengthy in process and there are better ways of dealing with this. Start applying fire to your Team Leaders first and let it trickle down to The Soldiers. Honestly if the Soldiers don't listen then you have a discipline problem within your Squad, and it's you're NCOs lack of it that are causing your headaches. Counsel your TLs, no counseling for patterns of misconduct no AR-15. That simple, but you can push for company grade Letters of reprimand. The "no fail" is a fail in it self, because what if you had joe go on emergency leave or anything out of your control, that means you have failed at your task. Think this through first. I know this is long but this is what I do. First Offense- counseling, second offense- counseling with a 30 min class in full ASUs explains why they failed at the designated task, solutions and how to implement them. Third offense- non judicial punishment. now the tricky part is if joe gets counseled the TL will receive counseling on joes second offense and when joe hits third, the TL will do the class and the SL received a counseling and notice of needs improvement on NCOER. It's just a method, it's worked for me as SL and PSG, if you want my PLT standard hit me up on global and I'll send it to you for some ideas. Just hold standards, don't go crazy and be consistent.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2015 7:48 AM

2015-12-22T07:48:40-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, Now that the deadline has passed, what was the final outcome?
-Has the squad come to respect you more or less after your final decision?
-What could you have done to create better results?
-Ultimatly were you a sucess, or a fail.
-What did you learn from this post, did you follow throu with any of the the response recomendations.
-What would have happend if one of the squad members seen your inital post?

Please comment so we all can learn, grow and develop together. Sometimes we forget its about US, and think only about me. What im talking about here is the NCO CORPS.

-Best wishes, and happy holidays.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2015 10:42 AM

2015-12-22T10:42:45-05:00

Battle, a NCO from a unit a couple years back used that as an excuse. The chain of command asked the NCO when he imposed punishment to one Soldier why didn't he call them. Just because texting is a new way of communication, doesn't mean that it will guarantee you that the message got through to your subordinates. If I have a squad or section of Soldiers, I will text first, then call them. Although it is a little too much communication on your part, it covers you when you make the decision of punishment in addition to ensuring that you include that in the counseling that you produce for punishment.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2015 11:13 AM

2015-12-22T11:13:32-05:00

Well firstly an NCO doesn't have UCMJ authority so at most you could recommend one, secondly no Company Commander with any shred of common sense would proceed with Non-Judicial Punishment for this infraction.

Response by SGT Charles Bunch made Dec 22 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-12-22T15:26:07-05:00

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Dec 22 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-12-22T17:03:28-05:00

See this is the problem. We lead by email and text instead of face to face coaching, teaching and mentoring.
Here is an idea. Tell them via text they are all getting article 15's. Make sure you use a lot of exclamation points and few four letter words so they know you are serious. That will teach them.
Or you could smash your phone and actually lead the correct way by personal interaction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 6:25 AM

2015-12-23T06:25:50-05:00

You should have done a counseling on the directive. Then you could counsel those who failed by using the counseling you had them sign.

Response by SSG Leonard Cartwright made Dec 23 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-12-23T07:53:15-05:00

Great response SGM Wettstein it something the NCO not doing .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-12-23T09:52:46-05:00

This sounds more like a situation that might require some corrective training, than one that would require UCMJ.

If you worked for me I'd want to know why you didn't already know when your people were on appointment or what hours they worked. If your section is large, spread out over multiple locations and/or doing shift work there should still be someone leading at each location who knows when people are/were on duty.

Lastly, asking people to get something done over the weekend involves accepting risk. You are the one who accepted this risk when you let your people go for the weekend without finishing this task that needed to be submitted Monday morning.

Response by SSG Wayne Wood made Dec 23 at 2015 11:57 AM

2015-12-23T11:57:29-05:00

One of the first - if not, THE first thing I learned as an NCO was you can delegate authority, but never responsibility.

I have had times I have felt like giving my entire section (I was an artillery crew Section Chief) an AR-15, but to me that should always be the last resort. I don't know what all the circumstances were concerning the situation but did you try getting up with them personally? Why were they released Friday in the first place if you knew before COB Friday the info was needed Monday? There are numerous "but ifs" one could go to. But the situation is what it is now.

What is done is done (or not done). The troops didn't do what they were told, counseling might be in order even if you didn't do everything in your power to get the job done. At the same time, I don't know what goodies you have in your kit bag to handle discipline but I had a whole bunch of things I used to do to keep my "kids" in line without permanent damage. I would make sure they were on every dirt detail Top (First Sergeant) had, one of my favorites was to tell a guy his name was my favorite "Cuss word" for the next two weeks. I would actually substitute his name for dirty words when I talked. Most of the guys thought it was funny but kind of embarrassing at the same time and surprisingly effective - the guy also knew he was automatically on every detail without being told.

Then there was ALWAYS extra training.
I know the Army has changed and some of this might not fly today, but the point is use your imagination. If the troops know this is alternative to UCMJ they usually appreciate that fact while getting the point they don't want to cross you. My philosophy on punishment both UCMJ and otherwise was would the Army truly benefit and would it make the troop a better soldier which would benefit the Army more than throwing a potentially good troop away?

I wasn't afraid to use UCMJ - but only for serious matters or when other methods had failed.

Sorry to go on so long, but hope this helps.

Response by SSG John Mitchell made Dec 23 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-12-23T13:52:56-05:00

Results? Did your Squad get it done?

I spent the first part of my Career in 307th ENG, 82nd ABN. If we were given a task, the task got done, period. If it had to be done by Monday, we either got it done Friday BEFORE we left or we didn't leave/ worked through said weekend, NCOs included. COSCOM was a different animal altogether.
I can understand asking advice from those with more experience. Obviously, from the comments section, others on here don't. However, it ultimately comes down to accountability. Yours.

Response by SSG Gerald King made Dec 24 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-12-24T11:19:49-05:00

You texted them over the weekend!? I think you need to go back learn how to supervise/manage people. If you expected them to complete the assigned tasks, you should have made face to face contact with them and explained exactly what you wanted done and make sure they understood and answer any questions they may have. Then you can leave to them to perform the assigned tasks. When I was the NCOIC of a detachment in Germany, we would frequently be required to provide static displays of our capabilities to visiting ViP. I would call a meeting of all personnel and tell them what I needed and they could decide who would man the positions. They could decide among themselves who was best prepared and I was never once disappointed.

Response by CPL J Sannizzaro made Dec 24 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-12-24T22:04:58-05:00

You should consider counseling. If a leader under me came to me to punish ALL his subordinates for failing his/her order my first question would be his leadership abalities, that he failed to communicate, lead, and inspire so grossly that non of his command complied.

Response by SSG James Gass made Dec 24 at 2015 11:59 PM

2015-12-24T23:59:52-05:00

The first person in this squad that is at fault is the leader. If you do more than expect things to happen because you soy so, then you need to get guidance from a senior NCO. You lead don't only give verbal demands to your soldier. Show among other things they matter to you. Put the phone away and learn how to honestly communicate

Response by SSG Benny Stewart made Dec 25 at 2015 12:54 AM

2015-12-25T00:54:03-05:00

As 1 E-6 to another a wise man told me that squad was there to Fail without the guidance of a good NCO check the leaders of the team and hold them accountable for what was not accomplished this is the job of the team leader to see that the order is carried out ..you counsel the team leaders and let the team leaders counsel there teams and there is no such thing as a "NO FAIL " Directive something all ways goes wrong in it or it brakes down inside.... try to work through it as a team is my suggestion...AIRBORNE AND HAPPY LEADING GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU ALL SAFE

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2015 12:11 PM

2015-12-26T12:11:49-05:00

I would say give them counseling and time based punishment (only time and money matters to Soldiers). A mass Article 15 only reflects poorly on the leadership (you, in this instance). Back in the day, Soldiers just got the task and did it. Today's Soldiers need the 'why' in the task. Give them the why, explaining the importance of the task(s). But no, I wouldn't recommend them UCMJ, but maybe have them spend a Saturday morning doing something work related, or barracks maintenance.

Fwiw, I voted you up, because there's nothing wrong with asking. [Shrug]

Response by SPC Eddie "Nemo" Aiumu made Dec 26 at 2015 1:58 PM

2015-12-26T13:58:40-05:00

No.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-12-26T15:52:53-05:00

Part of the problem with the army is that they give guys like this a squad. He doesn't know how to handle it. The break down or lack of leadership is quite disheartening. What kind of leader tries to recommend punishment for an entire squad for "homework"? I say homework because if it was mission critical then it should have been done during the work week.

Response by SGT Eric Dziekan made Dec 27 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-12-27T13:00:31-05:00

SSG Matthew Unger, I have read many of the responses given to you on this issue and I'm supprised no one has mentioned this.

You state in your proposed counseling that you informed the section of the "no fail" assignment and that YOU later passed out contact information for them to respond to via "electronic" message or text. As the section leader did YOU personally verify that indeed EVERY soldier had received this contact information before they left for the weekend?

If the answer is no, then you failed in your part of the assignment and you should explain to the PL there was an error in communication and the assignment will be completed ASAP.

Be careful in recommending UCMJ for such minor infractions. Your job as a NCO is to train and lead your section. Their actions are a direct response on your leadership. You should look out for and stand up for your troops unless there was a major infraction commited. They should look up to you. Do you think you deserve UCMJ for them not completing the task? No, it's not a major issue. Is it a training issue? Yes! You and all soldiers should not have to fear UCMJ for sneezing in the wrong tune. There is an appropriate time and circumstance for it's use. Don't ruin someone's career over a minor correctable issue.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-12-27T17:37:25-05:00

Speaking from personal exp: we've had NCOs text us in a group msg and not all of us would get it (as the plt sat together in the soldier center) Its not always us not wanting to respond, but I know outside of work, many have families, many have/had last minute things come up for Christmas/holidays coming up, some may have over looked a text, but wanting to affect a SMs career for not answering a text? If the task was to be completed by duty hours Monday, I'd say let it be till Monday. As a Sec Sgt you have your e5s e4s and etc... Use them, and direct. With all due respect, As a human being, wanting to end/affect a career for a text, I'd suggest a pause, reflect and then Charlie mike. Hope all went well with this, looking at dates of post and etc. Blessed Holidays

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-12-28T12:41:25-05:00

You need to accept responsibility, this is your failure not Thiers. If the task was so important why didn't you use more effect communication then texting? Why not a phone call or you could have been a real leader and shown up and instructed them in person. The manner of your communications gives a clear message that your concern is with your own promotion and comfort and not with taking care of your troops. Staff Sergeant, your methods are clearly in violation of the NCO Creed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-12-28T14:40:49-05:00

Ssg,Negative counseling should do it,also if they did not respond to your text that should give hint that they are not doing what you told them or maybe haven't seen it the barracks normally don't have good reception,have you tried calling them? Or went to the barracks for those that are single soldiers. A talk with them come the next business day would be also helpful. Could've they done it before cob Friday so you can have it monday?

Response by SSG Michael Lougheed Jr. made Jan 1 at 2016 3:36 PM

2016-01-01T15:36:13-05:00

Sounds like you don't have control over your soldiers. An Article 15 for disobeying a text? Just think about that for a minute, and wonder what your SMAG is going to think when he reads it if it even gets that far.

Response by SSG Larry Asher made Jan 7 at 2016 7:18 AM

2016-01-07T07:18:19-05:00

Seriously! Where were you over the weekend? Lead by example. I doubt that things have changed that much since I left the Army, NCO's don't lead by text messages. This is not a sign of their failure but yours. I recommend you take responsibility for the failed "No Fail" objective. If this falls on your squad then you have failed again, you will have failed them.

I am at a loss for words because I believe that nothing I say will help to change the course - the problem is not your squad it is the squad leader.

Response by SSG Larry Asher made Jan 7 at 2016 7:32 AM

2016-01-07T07:32:11-05:00

Wow! I just read some of the other replies to this post. What the heck is going on in the Army when an NCO, the section leader, has to ask his soldiers to document their work hours for the last month? In my day it was not up to them, we provided leadership and direction. Not only that we had PT in the AM, then three formations over the course of the day.

Response by SSG Larry Asher made Jan 7 at 2016 7:44 AM

2016-01-07T07:44:14-05:00

I have decided to use this as a comedy article in SFA newsletter - thanks!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2016 10:01 AM

2016-01-12T10:01:16-05:00

I would go with a counseling. Also if they didn't respond did you try to call them...

Response by SSG Red Hoffman made Jan 17 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-01-17T11:58:43-05:00

You gave your squad a task and then went home or wherever to enjoy your weekend? If I ever had my soldiers working on the weekend, I was there to supervise them. If my responsibility was to have those tasks done by Monday, and it didn't get done, it would be me and me alone who would have to accept the consequences. Yes, I believe 'counselling' is the answer....but not for them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 6:37 PM

2016-01-25T18:37:12-05:00

Sounds like there is a problem with their leadership. Texting is used for minor information, you should have called. However, having them do something over the weekend is the wrong answer. Sounds like you failed to plan and stuck your troops to do it at the last minute. If it was that important you would have had them do it during their actual work week.

it sounds like we know the problem is not the squadies.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Jan 31 at 2016 8:07 PM

2016-01-31T20:07:42-05:00

Are you kidding me!!!

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Feb 17 at 2016 10:15 PM

2016-02-17T22:15:38-05:00

This kind of silly horseshit is why I got out. Too much micromanagement, too much virtual leadership by proxy, not enough face to face leading from the front, and what the hell... if your squad fails, YOU FAILED. This failure is your fault, too. Counsel them, have your 1SG counsel you just as hard. Recommend them for NJP, your ass better be standing at the front saying "Sir me too."

Otherwise you aren't a leader. You're a PV6.