Would anybody admit to being promoted before you were ready?

2015-04-11T03:17:42-04:00

Maybe having been promoted too soon to any particular grade. In retrospect I can probably say I was not ready, or probably fully qualified to be an NCO at 21 with less than 3 years TIS. My PLT SGT saw alot of drive, tenacity, fire and fight in me, and took me under his wing. Sheer pride to out do my peers, made me memorize FM's and study guides better than my peers, however my practical knowledge was minimal at best. I attended every board i could, and never turned down a school. Have yet to make a Commandants, but never failed a school i was sent to either.

Point is, I endured alot of heart aches, embarrassment and swollen pride my first 2 years in stripes. I was grilled for things I should have known, and a hand full of times got my ass handed to me for not being meticulous as an NCO should. I am a better leader today for it, and expect to improve tomorrow, but had I not been so ambitious(awkward saying that ) i would have beeb pinned NCO soon enough, and probably saved myself some pain. Interested in your views and opinions.

V/R
Danny

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 3:20 AM

2015-04-11T03:20:35-04:00

So many of us have failed in some tangible way but we do learn and we should move on because our efforts in the long run succeed.

Response by SFC James Schroeder made Apr 11 at 2015 3:23 AM

2015-04-11T03:23:40-04:00

I made it to SGT fairly quickly, and immediately saw what happened to my seniors when they were not ready for the responsibility. That is the reason I very deliberately waved off SSG instead of charging ahead - I did not feel ready for the increased responsibility.

With that said... looking back, I wonder sometimes if that was the right decision. It gave me time to grow as an NCO before assuming more responsibility... but I also gave up the opportunity to grow. It's an interesting trade-off, and one that should never be made lightly.

I suppose it's also lessons learned from us old-timers, but hey - good question, and I'm glad you asked!

Response by 1SG Henry Yates made Apr 11 at 2015 6:48 AM

2015-04-11T06:48:03-04:00

SGT Daniel Aldana, I entered the Army in 1986 and at that time, combat medics were retiring at the grade E5. Our leadership encouraged those they felt capable to attend 91B30 school or our next development level for medics that nearly guaranteed a promotion to E5. By the time my number would have come, we had a new platoon sergeant who looked down on me . In his book, I wasn't the right material after a few social gatherings and he learned that I didn't drink and that my values were not moved by the influence of rank or pressure. I was refused the E5 promotion board and other opportunities. It took me 6 years to make E5 and 9 years to make E6.
After finishing my career and looking back, I have a great appreciation for being well grounded before promotion and it really paid off for me in consideration for senior ranks. My goal became absorption of everything I could, the team, making a difference and career wise, my mark was 20 years versus E9. Our saying when I came in was, "Be, all that you can be."
I'd say, remember where you came from:
Remember the good so that you repeat it and make things better. Remember the bad leadership experiences, learn from them so that you never forget them so that you don't repeat them and make a difference for the future.
Know your assigned Soldiers:
Who can you trust? When you are entrusted with mission as an NCO, you can't fail, even when you can't personally be present for everything. How do you find out who to trust, delegate small tasks, and look for attention to detail. An example is motor pool maintenance. Were all tasks accomplished? (Maintenance, police, oil stains, vehicle alignment, drip pans, chalk blocks and others) If small tasks are cared for with attention to detail, its a good sign that greater tasks will too.
Make a difference:
Respect your Soldiers down to the lowest grade, be fair, and develop your Soldiers. Document development, it means a lot to know a leader took the time to find something good, even with the Soldier that acts up. I've seen bad Soldiers become good, simply because someone did pay attention and document all the way down to the end of the DA 4856 and taught them how to be better versus having a punishment driven demeanor.
Showing that you believe in someone can go a long way. I have a SPC who drag raced down the main blvd on Fort Hood. She was punished and was given the opportunity to recover. She's now made E7 is now an Officer and she turned her energy to personal development and making a difference.
You already have a standard of staying above the status quo, now put that effort into leadership. Seek the responsibility of your next rank as you master your current rank. Develop in your MOS and know your job. Don't give leadership what they want to hear when the circumstances don't line up or regulation doesn't back an order or directive. Do what's right and give leadership what they want by execution and advising them of road blocks you can't move right away. You protect your leaders by keeping them out of trouble as well. You already sound resourceful, just apply it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 7:03 AM

2015-04-11T07:03:15-04:00

I definitely think we are promoting too fast. I made corporal at 19. Had it not been for recruiting orders slowing me down, I was on track to 7 in 7. In retrospect I'm glad that I didn't. Being a 24-25 year old SFC is ridiculous. The extra time at E5 and 6 allowed my maturity and experience to catch up to what higher ranks require.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 11 at 2015 7:16 AM

2015-04-11T07:16:17-04:00

Seems to me just when you're fully competent and capable in a given rank, you're promoted out of it. Constantly learning and stretching.

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 11 at 2015 7:44 PM

2015-04-11T19:44:33-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, if it were easy, you would not have learned anything. Someone saw that you were ready, or even eager, to learn and apply leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2015 4:27 AM

2015-04-13T04:27:13-04:00

SGT Aldana,
I feel that your leadership and the Army is looking at individuals who are showing the ability to lead at the next level. Timetables are set in place to help NCO’s gain the experience and maturity that is required. I also think it’s very hard to be fully prepared for the next position unless you’ve already been doing the job. As a PSG I was fully capable of doing my job but by the time I hit 24 months with one platoon is when I felt everything was so much easier. I too put in the extra hours after everyone went home to make sure everything was good for different ranges. My first 6 months I was leaving no earlier than 2100. My last 6 months everything was so much easier and I was home by 1730 if the schedule allowed it.
Sometimes the best way to gain the experience is by exposing yourself to all the different things that come with the next position.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 8:09 AM

2015-04-14T08:09:03-04:00

Promotions are not for what you have done, but for what you are expected to do. they recognize your potential to do it. So you may not think you are ready, yet you have demonstrated potential that you are; and you may be the fellow needed at a particular time.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 8:38 AM

2015-04-14T08:38:58-04:00

Philosophically...No one is ready...They think they are. We are not perfect. Remain humble and learn. Peeps get promoted and seem to think they are the best thing since pants with pockets. I was amazed, when I got promoted, with all the things I thought I knew. I was wrong. Was I ready? I felt I was. I acted like I was. Truth be told, I was not looking at the bigger picture. So for me, I had a lot to learn.

Soldiers are our biggest asset. Train, mentor, and develop leaders you would follow through hell and back. That is my goal.
Mag Empty....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 8:42 AM

2015-04-14T08:42:50-04:00

I pinned E-5 with only 23 months TIS. I thought I was high speed, hard charging and was ready and rearing to go. It took awhile for me to come to realization that I wasn't ready. Within 3 months of my pinning my E-5, I was asked to turn my packet into the board for E-6. I turned them down because I definitely was not ready for that next step. Overall, I turned down E-6 three times because I was not mature enough nor did I have the experience needed for the position.

Response by MAJ Chris Ballard made Apr 14 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-04-14T09:37:11-04:00

I would say you're never fully ready for the next rank until you've done it. If you aren't meeting any challenges or having to figure things out, then you are probably working below your current grade. You're promoted on your potential, not just your past performance.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 14 at 2015 10:36 AM

2015-04-14T10:36:28-04:00

You did not prioritize your professional goals properly. Once you did, I am sure you approached being an NCO like a bull in a China shop.

Response by SFC Charles S. made Apr 14 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-04-14T12:41:14-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member That is a great question. You know the Macho answer is always going to be NO.... But From E-4 to SGT. I don't know if anyone is really ready until you put the stripes on. The responsibility that comes with that is immense. I know when I was first promoted to SP5 it was not really expected to be a Leader...more a knowlegeble Subject matter expert. Then when they did away with the SP Rank, I went from SME to SGT overnight. I wasn't really ready. It took time to gain the knowledge that was actually required to OWN that rank. There is a period of time that all people go through to work into their next rank. Each one comes with new responsibilities and commitments that the last one didn't have.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-04-14T15:47:52-04:00

The responses here are quite positive and leaning more toward what i suspected. With just over 3 years in the chute I confident Im ready for the next set of challenges, and with the new MOS points being a mear 16 for SSG, it shouldnt be long. Although im sure to get my fair share of curveballs thrown my way, the feet-ass-head(paratrooper thing ;-) intro i had into the NCO corp 3 years ago will serve me well in adjusting, but more importantly, preparing for a wider range,and scope of responsibilities. I thank you all for sharing your experiences

V/R
Danny

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Apr 22 at 2015 5:26 PM

2015-04-22T17:26:03-04:00

I was pinned E-5 with 24 months in service back in 77, I was the best wheeled Mechanic and all the E-5 were on Levy for Germany or ETS'ing. I was ask to be AJ Sgt and my current squad leader said do not accept that unless you pass the board first, as many were pinned and forgotten and had a hard time getting to the board. So I was sent to the E-5 board and passed and when I was pinned three months later, I thought it was AJ, the next day I read the paperwork and I had made the cutoff and was promoted, At 19 Years old I had no clue how to lead but was a darn good mechanic, I worry how many soldiers I ruined before I became a leader that could do the job. I could train mechanics but no clue on leading soldiers.

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Jul 15 at 2015 11:46 PM

2015-07-15T23:46:11-04:00

Since navy Enlisted had to pass fleetwide exams you had to have the knowledge to do so. Advancement in almost all cases is acknowledgement that you already have at least the basics of your rate and rating. Advancement gives you more opportunities to use and lead others in those skill sets. I'd come into the SEABEES with a trade as a telecommunications technician. I probably had more experience and training than the average Construction Electrician. But I really knew little beyond the knowledge factors on wiring buildings or power grid distribution. As an E5 I defer to the E3 who does. That's the real key to leadership. Realizing you don't know it all and trusting subordinates to do their jobs. I might be responsible for the project but always it's a cooperative effort and rank doesn't count on the professional side.

Response by PO1 Shahida Marmol made Jul 16 at 2015 10:41 AM

2015-07-16T10:41:27-04:00

I think this happens a lot in the Navy. I definitely was promoted too early. I had no clue how to even do my designated job. But with time I took my role and ran with it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 9:25 AM

2015-12-13T09:25:31-05:00

They used to have a program called the "early commissioning program" where you could do two years at a military junior college and get your commission. I received my commission before my 21st birthday through this program. I would definitely say I was not ready to be a 2LT at that time. I did a few years in the guard while I finished school before going active. Luckily, during my first year on Active Duty I had some outstanding mentors who helped catch me up to my peers. So yes, I would say that sometimes we promote people before they're ready, but engaged leadership and mentorship can help those who are given the challenge early.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2015 10:03 AM

2015-12-13T10:03:50-05:00

I'm a little late to this discussion but the topic is of great interest to me so I felt obligated to post a response.

I pinned SGT on 1 OCT 2014 after being a SPC for 10 months. I had spent more TIS as a PFC than a Specialist and at the time I made my E5 I had 2 years and 6 months TIS. I do not think I was ready, as I struggled for the first few months. I am not a very open person, and I had to get comfortable speaking in front of others and giving orders. Luckily I had a Squad Leader who took me under his wing and taught me a lot, not just my MOS but being a leader in general. I believe my struggles made me the leader I am today. Now I am out-performing NCO's who have been doing the job for longer than I have.

What helps me is to be humble, and think before you speak. Treat your Soldiers with respect and work hard for them and they will do the same for you in return. Be understanding and approachable, but also realizing that there is a separation in rank and not becoming their buddy. Counsel your Soldiers regularly and on time, not just for bad but for good things also.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 13 at 2015 12:12 PM

2015-12-13T12:12:29-05:00

I think every 2LT is subject to conditions you describe.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Dec 13 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-12-13T18:00:49-05:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, good military professional development mandates that leaders (and potential leaders) be put into positions before they are proven ready for them.

This is not the Cub Scouts, where the goal is to protect the kids. As a soldier, you are expected to take risks, recover from mistakes, and always rise to the needs of the service and the nation. The only sure way to teach you how to do that is to consistently push you outside your comfort zone so that you learn that you *can* do things you didn't believe you were capable of, and develop the confidence to find a path when you aren't really sure what to do next -- and to do so with enough confidence that the soldiers following you believe in their hearts that you *will* show them the right thing to do even when Hell is raining down, and act accordingly.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Feb 15 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-02-15T19:03:21-05:00

I was promoted very young. In retrospect I was as ready as anybody I was 20 years old with about 32 months in service when I made Sergeant (E-5). Of course there was the inevidible problem with 24 year old guys who were salty Lance Corporals, but I was able to work my way through it without ever having to turn to Senior Leadership.
There was a saying I had "If you don't respect your Seniors, you better learn to fear your betters"

Response by SGT Leon Cooper made Jul 22 at 2016 7:39 AM

2016-07-22T07:39:18-04:00

I'm really late to the party, but I'll say this - I went from E-4 to E-5 in 9 months. Some would say that I might not have been ready, but I had two advantages over my peers:

1. My father was a SGM, so I had seen good leadership all my life.
2. A lot of my high school friends went to West Point, Annapolis, or Colorado Springs, and shared stories of their experiences.

At my core, I was shy and introverted, but when I put the uniform on, nothing stopped me from doing the job to the best of my abilities, even when that meant counseling Joes who were older than me.

I suppose the 'Results Not Typical' disclaimer might not apply here; I would just advise putting constant and committed effort into your craft. Everything will work itself out in the end.

Response by SPC James Jackson made Mar 22 at 2017 9:47 PM

2017-03-22T21:47:29-04:00

We never get promoted when we think we are ready but when we are ready enough because some things are learned not taught.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 25 at 2019 7:38 AM

2019-03-25T07:38:51-04:00

I pinned Cpl early while in a grunt BN. I was nowhere near as ready as I should have been. Luckily, I was surrounded by good leadership, and "system pressures" which made me learn fast.

I picked up Sgt much later than peers who were promoted to Cpl at the same time. Both of these were due to the way statistical promotions work (composite/cutting score). At that point I was ready.

The USMC has a general philosophy of "If you are a Cpl, you are really a Sgt in Training." That concept was essential to my leadership skills progression.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Mar 25 at 2019 7:51 AM

2019-03-25T07:51:13-04:00

I understand where you come from since I experienced the same as a Junior enlisted: pinned SGT a with less than 3 years. Painful to some extent but I had great leadership who also understood, and thinking about it I believe they make it as such in on purpose... learning experience under a controlled environment. About a year and a half after getting promoted I moved from organization but in better shape.