Will the Army open its elite Ranger Regiment to women?

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:04:11 -0400

Air National Guard C-130s roared over the lush, shaggy grass of the Elizabeth Drop Zone here last week, a near-steady hum overhead. Army Ranger students were a few hours into a mission known as Operation Pegasus, and needed to parachute in from a height of about 1,100 feet.

Aircrews made several passes without letting any students out due to breezy conditions deemed unsafe to jump. But eventually, the students’ green chutes dotted the early-evening Thursday sky. They floated down into the open fields of Eglin with 70 pounds of equipment, food and water before disappearing into thick brush, beginning a 10-day exercise that ends this Saturday and is the last major field event in the Army’s famously difficult Ranger School.

History is in the balance: For the first time, two female students advanced to the third and final phase of the famously exhausting course in the swamps of Florida, and are within reach of graduating. If they pass, they will become the first Ranger-qualified women in the history of the U.S. military and celebrated at an Aug. 21 graduation ceremony at Fort Benning, Ga., that is expected to draw not only family and friends, but hundreds of other well-wishers and media from across the country.

If they graduate, the Army must confront a separate, but related decision: Whether to allow women to try out for the elite 75th Ranger Regiment. The highly trained Special Operations unit carries out raids and other difficult missions and includes about 3,600 soldiers, according to a recent Government Accountability Office report. It remains completely closed to women, even though some of the jobs in it, ranging from parachute rigger to intelligence analyst, are open in other parts of the Army.

The women were allowed into Ranger School this year as part of the military’s ongoing assessment of how to integrate women into combat roles. In 2013, Pentagon leaders decided to rescind the long-held policy banning women from serving in combat-arms jobs like infantryman. Thus far, the Army has said that any woman who graduates will be allowed to wear the prestigious Ranger Tab, but won’t be allowed to serve in the Ranger Regiment. The decoration is highly respected across the military, and considered a necessity to advance in many Army careers.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/will-the-army-open-its-elite-ranger-regiment-to-women-a-controversial-decision-awaits/ar-BBlEbj7

Will the Army open its elite Ranger Regiment to women? A controversial decision awaits.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 2:23 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:23:34 -0400

If they meet the qualification they should. Will they? Who knows?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 3:07 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:07:31 -0400

Oh the dilemmas we create! I think the Army will have themselves backed in a corner. You can't say you are opening it up to women and then deny them entrance to a unit, can you?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Aug 15 at 2015 3:20 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:20:38 -0400

We will see if those two female officers graduate this coming week first.

Response by PO1 Sojourner "Chancy" Phillips made Aug 15 at 2015 3:33 PM

PO1 Sojourner "Chancy" Phillips — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:33:01 -0400

A Solider has no gender. If they qualify and can do the job then what is the issue?

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 15 at 2015 4:12 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:12:05 -0400

Isn't that a loaded question? They can be graduates and wear the tab, but will they be deployed in a leadership position any time soon?

Clancy, beg to differ, there is a gender difference and actually that can not be changed, since DNA decides that. The question is are we willing to place our females in a position where they will, in all probability be in hand to hand combat. As I have stated previously, females in the all volunteer forces are essential for our national security. I would only say if there is a danger that a PC agenda could cost lives due to physical strength, it may not be the greatest ides.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 15 at 2015 4:25 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:25:34 -0400

Now. No. It was stated in advance that any potential female candidate would not be going to the Ranger Regiment. That issue will be decided once the Army determines how they are going to fully integrate women in Combat Units. This is a Cart before Horse issue.

Until most Combat Units to BN level are desegregated, this issue is moot. Once the Army as a whole is desegregated, and there is a larger quantity of potential candidates, then it may become an issue.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Aug 15 at 2015 6:35 PM

PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 18:35:06 -0400

From what I read the other day, it looks like two women just might make it. They're getting close to the end of training.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2015 9:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:18:22 -0400

Even if they did, is there a woman who could pass the RPAT?
Just because two women made through Ranger School after the third try, has nothing to do with whether they can hang in the most elite Infantry unit in the world. Ranger School is tough, but nothing compared to my three weeks in RIP or my first six months of hell in Regiment.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 15 at 2015 11:45 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sat, 15 Aug 2015 23:45:01 -0400

If they can do the job then yes

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Aug 16 at 2015 8:07 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:07:30 -0400

Yes it's called equal opportunity to all. They opened up door, now women will knock it down and continue the mission.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 16 at 2015 8:24 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:24:28 -0400

Gunny, IMO I do not believe it will happen for a while. First women would have to have an MOS that is in the Regiment. Even though everyone that is assigned to the Regiment is not tabbed, I think it will be a while until the Ranger community totally excepts them. MPs in the Army used to be partially closed to women. They couldn't be assigned to platoons that directly supported brigade combat teams. I was in one of the last all male platoons and was in on the selection of the first female in the platoon. She happened to be a 1LT and was the first MP DS (direct support) PL. She did an excellent job as the PL. It was harder getting female enlisted in because of the physical stuff we do. So with that said, IMO the first ones to be assigned will more than likely be in a support MOS.

Response by SSG Jeff Binkiewicz made Aug 16 at 2015 11:35 AM

SSG Jeff Binkiewicz — Sun, 16 Aug 2015 11:35:50 -0400

Just my opinion, but yes. Why not. If they are going to open all fields to females then these closely guarded male fraternitys should also, that would be discrimantion if not. I mean surely if they can pass Ranger School then they can do anything right? A soldier is a soldier people have be saying for awhile. Make one PT standard, one grooming standard, gender neutral latrenes, no separate showers fac. no separate sleeping quarters. I mean come on they want to be treated as equal right, not equal but separate. Where will this all end up?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 12:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:53:44 -0400

In short...NO. The Armay already said no and the 75th Ranger Regimnet is afforded the rare opportunity of a hiring process in which they may select their candidates based off of criteria of their choosing, (also known as RASP I/II). Just because you have a ranger tab doesn't even mean hat the Regiment will hire you. To be Honest RASP is significantly harder than Ranger school, which is why I'm surprised some of the young Rangers fail. The regiment will not allow females, and I HIGHLY doubt that the Army will ever be able to pressure them into it!

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 17 at 2015 12:55 PM

SN Greg Wright — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:55:45 -0400

I'll start my response with simple, undeniable, unchangeable facts:

1. Women have lower bone density than men. This is a result of evolving with -typically- carrying less weight than men.
2. Women's muscles are less dense. Again, a result of evolution.
3. Women have smaller lung capacity. Say it with me: evolution. (I'm leaving religion out of this).
NONE of those points are meant to be insulting. It's just SCIENCE.

Having said that, THERE ARE ALWAYS outliers in statistics. Always. What does this mean? It means that there will be some women strong enough, determined enough, to do SF jobs. And they should be allowed to. If the two current candidates pass Ranger School then, like the males in the active regiment before them, they'll have to go on to additional training, which they will have to ALSO pass, and IF THEY DO...then there is no reason to not activate them in a direct combat capacity.

Where we will run into problems is if we lower the standards to inflate the numbers by picking up women who aren't the outliers. Much the same as you'd have problems if you did the same to get more men.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 8:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:20:32 -0400

Here is an interesting read. http://sofrep.com/37098/75th-says-girls-regiment/

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 8:29 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:29:18 -0400

I think eventually they will but I don't think there is any rush since the first two are just now about to graduate Ranger School.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 18 at 2015 12:01 AM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 00:01:43 -0400

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad Interesting question. Unlike our Marines, who did their pilots at their Infantry courses enlisted and officer, the Army decided on Ranger School? I am still not sure why; no one really is. Ranger school is/was open to many skills and MOSs, but until this pilot... not to women. Ranger school is arguably the hardest school in DOD and the Army... so, if I women can do it... why can't women be in the Ranger Regiment, Army Special Forces, or conventional Infantry for that matter? Many will argue this was a tainted experiment, that was geared to ensure some women succeeded... Who knows what really happened? I know, or at least I believe, the 75th wants no part of this, and has been actively working to ensure everyone understands the school and regiment are not one in the same. To them, the regiment is the real deal and the school is just a school. I am not sure I agree... but I am just Ranger qualified... not a "real ranger" as the regiment likes to make that distinction...

Interesting and emotional question indeed.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 1:37 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:37:53 -0400

If they can meet all of the same requirements (gender-neutral) then sure.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 20 at 2015 1:43 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:43:00 -0400

Sure why not as long as they meet all the published standards that any other Ranger must go through to join the unit.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 20 at 2015 2:14 PM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:14:01 -0400

Now i feel like a Dummy i thought the 75th was just a command I knew they are considered elite ranger unit. But i thought once you earned the TAB you could go to the 75th when slots open up.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 20 at 2015 2:24 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:24:11 -0400

Do you?

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 20 at 2015 2:33 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:33:50 -0400

Times are changing. For a unit like the Rangers (or any other elite unit), they would have to be able to do it at the same standard required of males. No changing standards, period. My concern is whether fellow Rangers would accept females. The SEALs and SF are also going to have to face this issue. Could be a difficult transition.

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Aug 20 at 2015 3:18 PM

SSG Todd Lysfjord — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:18:55 -0400

Regiment has nothing to do with RTB. Easy to do a pilot program for a qualification course...much different when you are going to live that life as long as your military career or your body might allow. We shall see...

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 20 at 2015 3:27 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:27:36 -0400

Why send them to Ranger school then? If they can pass Ranger school, they can get assigned to a Ranger Bat. That doesn't mean that they can stay. Ranger school is elementary school for badasses. Serving and surviving in an actual Ranger Bat is another story. If it is up to you to lift a 225 pound batman gear heavy Ranger and get them to the LZ, no one cares if you are tabbed or not. If you can't perform the task, pack your trash and go home before you get someone killed.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Aug 20 at 2015 3:40 PM

SGT Christopher Churilla — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:40:34 -0400

I think so. What's the point of them earning the tab if they aren't allowed to join? I think that would look worse than not letting them even try to earn the tab in the first place.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 20 at 2015 3:44 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:44:24 -0400

Why not they earned it! If they have there MOS in the regiment then let them serve!

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 20 at 2015 3:46 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:46:34 -0400

Before everyone breaks their charging handles, I believe they simply went to Ranger School - I have heard no mention of any females going to a Bat. On this, I'm in total agreement, life in a Bat is WAAAAY different than passing Ranger School. There may be a female or two who could actually do it but I don't think females will be low crawling to get into battalion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2015 5:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:40:20 -0400

If you haven't passed RIP/RASP and served in the Regiment then you have no idea what it takes to survive, let alone perform well there in a place where exceeding the standard is part of the Creed. Not some Creed that gets put on a wall somewhere, but one that every person can recite at will and lives by.
Just as I have never been an astronaut, I wouldn't pretend to tell NASA what it takes to send someone in space. If you're one of the people who think that having a tab and serving in Regiment have any connection other than a historical one, you are so woefully uninformed that you should do research before forming an opinion and sharing it with the world.
Also, before we talk about "meeting the standards" we need to make one standard across the board and bring these PT events up to participate for everyone. As long as women are perceived to have an unfair advantage with their PT scores, they will never be fully integrated into combat arms.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Aug 21 at 2015 6:39 PM

SPC George Rudenko — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:39:44 -0400

Absolutely. I don't give a damn who a person is, as long as they can fight and get INTO the fight. Too many pretty pretty 6 pack abs male models shiitake in their pants at first gunshot. Are you in the fight? Yes?!?!? Then you are fine in my book. Tab doesn't define you, action does!

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 6 at 2015 1:03 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 13:03:22 -0400

yes

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Oct 30 at 2015 8:44 AM

CSM Michael Chavaree — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 08:44:56 -0400

I was not extrememy challenged by Ranger School, and it was not the hardest thing I have ever done. Ranger school is not the selection to make it to the Regiment, it is a basic requirement.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Oct 31 at 2015 9:44 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:44:50 -0400

I will also note a lot of men who sign up for a Ranger Bat have no idea what they're getting into. When I was there in 79-80, about 1 in 4 made it through RIP. It wasn’t just big monster guys who could bench 500 lbs who made it, a lot of little wiry guys made it. It’s about heart, not brute strength. Many SEALS with 0% body fat bolo’d Ranger school because they had no body fat – they were used to 4000-5000 calories a day to support all the weight training they did. I remember guys in pre-Ranger being allowed to go through the chow line as much as they wanted in order to put on some fat… I’m drifting off topic, things have changed. I personally don’t think many women could hack a Ranger Bat but I suppose they should be allowed to try. If they can make it through RIP, I’d give them a 1 in 4 chance of being able to serve a two-year tour.

Response by SGT William Howell made Nov 2 at 2015 11:53 AM

SGT William Howell — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:53:41 -0500

So here is my one and only thought on this.

I couldn't pass the Ranger School if I had wanted to. I am not a Ranger, most of the people arguing about females in the Rangers are not Rangers. Since I nor most of the people arguing about this are even tabbed, we have no clue what we are talking about and are just speculating as to what is required and acceptable. So instead of blabbing about something that most Rangers would probably just roll their eyes at I am going to shut up and move on to a subject that I find meaningful.

Response by MSgt Thomas Burman made Nov 2 at 2015 10:17 PM

MSgt Thomas Burman — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 22:17:24 -0500

Ranger school is a LEADERSHIP school. It does not qualify anyone for service in the Regiment. Completing RASP is what opens the door to the Bats and I don't see any women aside from the possible outliers making it through RASP if the standards are kept the same. I also don't see women living the hard knock life of being a Ranger. The physiological differences between the male and female body are genetic, unchangeable and undeniable. Life in the Bats takes a heavy toll on a male body. With women having lower bone density and muscle mass I just don't see females enduring the near constant physical abuse that comes with serving in the Bats.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Aug 24 at 2017 8:16 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:16:55 -0400

If they can do it without changing the standards...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2021 8:48 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 20:48:30 -0400

Hopefully not.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2023 3:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Aug 2023 15:59:06 -0400

Hopefully not until they can pass the "Original" Ranger course and RASP 1 or 2 (non-gender relaxed). Very few Infantry Soldiers can pass Ranger School and very few of the survivors can make it to or survive in the Regiments. They live a grueling existence, run 12 miles with full combat loadout at least once every week (1983), and carry unimaginable loads in actual combat. More Rangers have died in the course of regular training than have ever died in combat. Any soldier wanting to be a "scrolled" Ranger must be at least as good as any male candidate for the position without any gender preference whatsoever.