Why would someone attend West Point for 3+ years and then just resign and leave?

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:12:19 -0500

Stumbled on this old piece from 2012. What's the deal here? Are there things we don't know about what happened here?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-page/west-point-religious-freedom_b_2232279.html

The title West Point Graduate carries a great deal of weight in this world. Those who earn it are given a "golden ticket" and wear a "ring of power" w...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2016 8:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 20:21:09 -0500

Interesting article! I remember in basic training we were urged to attend services, but were not forced to attend.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 30 at 2016 9:24 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:24:35 -0500

I worked with someone as a civilian that did that very thing. Attended USMA until their third year and then just resigned. All I could get out of him was he couldn't get the assignment he wanted and did not like the setup of the Army making assignments without his input. Sounded strange to me and he should have learned that a lot sooner than year three but he was tight lipped after that. So who knows. However, I will say this when we had the USMA Cadets get assigned to the 101st in their third year. Four of them assigned to our Infantry Company for the Summer of their Junior going on Senior year. Two of the four left very disillusioned the other two adapted and did pretty well. The two disillusioned Cadets one of them I heard changed his branch after the 101st experience, never heard about the other one. But I think the issue there from personal observation was West Point education on the Infantry branch seemed to be more like a Hollywood movie than reality. For example one of the Cadets could not believe someone stole his duty uniform when he left it unsecured......he was just in a ridiculous state of shock about it and kept saying, "where is the honor?"..........it was kind of like, "Welcome to the real world".

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 30 at 2016 9:52 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:52:45 -0500

When I was a drill Sergeant, after getting my new platoon settled....one of the first platoon meetings was a "Who are you? Why are you here? What is your MOS?"
I had one mid 20s guy insist he had no MOS...... After racking them for the night, and checking paperwork....I could not see an MOS assignment ...
Next day, my DS partner and I had a chat with him off line.... West point guy that was a musician..that's all he wanted out of the Army he decided his third year, the Army was not for him so he "quit" The Army told him that was not one of the options available.....lol, he was given orders to Basic at FT Jackson, to be assigned an MOS later, needs of the Army, and would serve his remaining service obligation 8 year, as an enlisted Soldier, limited to the rank of PFC.

Another weird one... Valley forge academy grad, 2nd LT reports to my platoon for duty, assigned as the PL (very abnormal for a 2nd LT to be assigned to a speciality platoon) After exchanging pleasantries literally the first thing he asked....."Sergeant...How do I quit?"
Assuming In heard him wrong, maybe he meant this platoon assignment, this company, this duty station I asked for clarification.. Nope he wanted to "quit" said his parents would pay for what ever he "owed" for his schooling and commissioning but he wanted to quit and go back to the family buisness..
I Said I understood and he needs to go talk with the BN Operations Officer, he handles that sport of thing. Maj Vince Lombardi was an excellent offcier, I held him in high respect. He would back you 100% if you were right..and 100% if you made the best decision you could , and it still went to shit. He also would crucify you 100% if you quit, failed the mission because you did not put everything into accomplishing it. This was in Fairbanks Alaska, middle of winter. Im not sure what happened to that 2nd LT, but the next day Maj Vince Lombardi told me I would be the acting PL and select a NCO from my platoon to serve as PSG for the time being ....lol

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Nov 30 at 2016 10:23 PM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:23:46 -0500

Any time there is a secret code or a secret society within an organization there is always the truth that is experienced by those that are on the inside and the perception of truth that is related to and believed by those on the periphery of the organization and possibly a third "truth" for those outside the organization. Most of us who have served know that these different levels of "truth" and secrecy exist. Many people of conviction find it difficult if not impossible to maintain secrets or turn a blind eye to their convictions if they are not in agreement. Sometimes it then becomes necessary for them to walk away regardless of the time invested if they have become disenfranchised with the organization. Their willingness to belong or participate is guided by their moral compass and cannot be reconciled with what they are observing or experiencing.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 30 at 2016 10:34 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 22:34:17 -0500

Square peg/round hole syndrome. I remember being let go by USMA because they didn't like my eyes but didn't figure that out until after Beast Barracks. Didn't know if I was more relieved or sad. Looking back, just as well. I do remember the extreme structure, attitudes, procedures, and acceptable thoughts that were pounded in your heads. Knowing what I do now, like Boot Camp, the objective of a lot of the program is to activate the frontal lobe so you can be a true adult and be trainable in larger picture stuff. We didn't know why it worked for millennia, but we do now.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Nov 30 at 2016 11:17 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:17:12 -0500

I read the article, CPT Aaron Kletzing. As a USMA graduate, I'd like to read your thoughts on the article penned by Blake Page. I'd also like to read what LTC Stephen F. remembers from his time there.

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 30 at 2016 11:38 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:38:06 -0500

I was a dyed in the wool atheist at USNA from 78-82. Never saw anything remotely like this at Annapolis. If I was going to make a claim about "secrets societies" The closest I found was the Midshipmen from NJ. Their secret code of conduct was to appear as much of a Hollywood caricature of NJ urbanites as possible whenever someone from NYC or Philly was around. The rest of the time they were normal.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Dec 1 at 2016 12:10 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 00:10:14 -0500

Well as a USMA graduate and somebody who pays attention I would discount "news" from the Huffington Post unless it is corroborated in more legitimate news sources CPT Aaron Kletzing.
Any Military-Service Academy cadet or midshipmen who stays past the second summer and enters the junior year [Cow at West Point] and then leaves voluntarily [and in many cases involuntary] is (1) obligated to serve as an enlisted service-member [or NCO if sufficient rank was attained in prior service] in the respective military-service for a corresponding period of service or (2) obligated to pay back the cost of his/her education which can be as high as $250,000.
Thanks for mentioning me LTC Stephen C.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2016 1:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 01:01:34 -0500

I worked at USMA (as a TAC) during this time. This article is far from conveying a fair version of the facts.

There are no mandatory prayers, the coat of arms he describes can be viewed as a religious symbol (just like other Army heraldry), or it can be viewed as symbolic of Mil history (or if you are like me, you can spend time thinking of more important things). There are no extra-passes for religious retreats; Cadets get the same #of passes for personal use, club use (religion) and other purposes.

If anyone thinks an organization under such scrutiny (USMA) would engage in the practices described by this former cadet, I assume your either nuts or ignorant of how prudent the military is with social issues.

I'm confident if we checked this former cadet's record brief, we would see much more of the reason for his departure.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Dec 1 at 2016 7:19 AM

1SG Al Brown — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 07:19:29 -0500

I read the article. There is nothing missing. He picked the correct action for himself, and it benefited his non-belief system, his career, his pocket book and his ability to publish his position. It also greatly benefited his future commanders.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Dec 1 at 2016 1:07 PM

LTC Joseph Gross — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:07:23 -0500

There will always be those who don't know the proper boundary between proselytizing and polite respect for someone else's religion. But this jerk is one of those who takes slight at every little thing and would never have been a successful Army officer anyway. Likely a perpetual whiner about his hurt feelings. Good riddance to bad rubbish. All that being said, Soldiers, especially officers, should know and practice what is right. That means leaving me the hell alone on Sunday morning. I got riding to do or a football game to watch!

Response by COL John Hudson made Dec 6 at 2016 10:28 AM

COL John Hudson — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:28:29 -0500

I'm more inclined to believe this individual entered into the USMA already locked into his 'non-religious' attitude than suddenly experiencing an epiphany in year three and hitting the door. There's always one in every crowd wanting to change the world, or at least that part of it they breathe in.

The only way I'll accept he didn't know of the USMA's practices is by throwing away all the pre-school material or falling asleep during numerous orientation briefings. The U.S. military organization across the board promotes non-discrimination for just about every flavor there is out there. He could have had a quiet meeting with his Commander to work out a schedule that would excuse him from those areas that offended his religion or lack of it. But no, our hero decides he'll ride the white horse of revolution and recruit a 'movement' with him at the helm. Quite a wake-up to find that's not an acceptable course of action within the USMA and I'll bet beans to steak he was one step away from being asked to leave.

My tax dollars paid for this rebel's change of heart and I for one want my money back. The USMA should initiate collection action to recover the cost of his education up to the day he departed.

Response by MAJ T Ferris made Dec 6 at 2016 12:12 PM

MAJ T Ferris — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 12:12:54 -0500

I went to OCS with someone who went to West Point and graduated but did not take his commission. He enlisted in the Army several years later and then went to OCS. It's rare, but it happens.

Response by CPT Endre Barath made Dec 6 at 2016 3:27 PM

CPT Endre Barath — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:27:57 -0500

Interesting article, having spent time at USMA with class of 77 & 78 and not graduating due to academics... the only thing I can say is that the article presents one disgruntled individual's position. I am confident that there are other pieces of the puzzle that his classmates could share as well as people closer to the event from the administration who were there at the time. If the motivation for change was serious on his part, I would have to say working from within the system would have created better opportunities....

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Dec 7 at 2016 5:08 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 17:08:15 -0500

Could be the politics and political correctness, loss of objectives like winning wars rather than having to get legal advice before killing our enemy's

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2016 3:44 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 15:44:24 -0500

I'm pretty certain I don't care why he quit, I'm just glad he did.