Posted on May 24, 2015
Why this officer thinks the "Soft" Uniform is Dangerous (Law Enforcement), do you agree?
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Just curious to see what others think.
http://www.lawofficer.com/articles/2015/05/why-the-soft-uniform-is-dangerous.html
http://www.lawofficer.com/articles/2015/05/why-the-soft-uniform-is-dangerous.html
Police
Uniforms
Protest
Gear
Law Enforcement
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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The Wire - This drug thing, this ain't police work.
In it, Howard Colvin (Western District Major) describes to a young police sergeant, the problem with Americas Drug war. In this reflection of modern day poli...
1. Interesting (and some fair points) by this "man on the ground" (-Major Travis Yates- the 'man on the ground' means someone involved in the action more than me... it's usually good to put stock in him).
2. Cargo rip-stop pants don't have to be military looking.
3. Vests and gear can be made more low-profile, and the kit can match the operating environment.
4. Even those of us actually in the military dropped our armor whenever we could to establish rapport with locals.
5. It's a mindset: Just look at the tactical absurdity in the first photo I posted. As in the wire: "Maj. Howard 'Bunny' Colvin: [... ] This drug thing, this ain't police work. No, it ain't. I mean, I can send any fool with a badge and a gun up on them corners and jack a crew and grab vials. But policing? I mean, you call something a war and pretty soon everybody gonna be running around acting like warriors. They gonna be running around on a damn crusade, storming corners, slapping on cuffs, racking up body counts. And when you at war, you need a fucking enemy. And pretty soon, damn near everybody on every corner is your fucking enemy. And soon the neighborhood that you're supposed to be policing, that's just occupied territory. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5za4VsskM
EDITed for clarity on point 1.
2. Cargo rip-stop pants don't have to be military looking.
3. Vests and gear can be made more low-profile, and the kit can match the operating environment.
4. Even those of us actually in the military dropped our armor whenever we could to establish rapport with locals.
5. It's a mindset: Just look at the tactical absurdity in the first photo I posted. As in the wire: "Maj. Howard 'Bunny' Colvin: [... ] This drug thing, this ain't police work. No, it ain't. I mean, I can send any fool with a badge and a gun up on them corners and jack a crew and grab vials. But policing? I mean, you call something a war and pretty soon everybody gonna be running around acting like warriors. They gonna be running around on a damn crusade, storming corners, slapping on cuffs, racking up body counts. And when you at war, you need a fucking enemy. And pretty soon, damn near everybody on every corner is your fucking enemy. And soon the neighborhood that you're supposed to be policing, that's just occupied territory. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5za4VsskM
EDITed for clarity on point 1.
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SSG (Join to see)
Not sure who your Item 1 is.
2-5, I am a Police Officer. Not only do I not go out everyday in Riot Gear, but I've not been issued any. 99% of Law Enforcement does not wear any form of tactical uniform in their daily functions. Make fun of tactics all you like, but it still doesn't explain a need to make Law Enforcement look like Adam-12 in a Demolition Man style world. Because, that's what it honestly looks like. The beginning of Demolition Man, I figured I should make that clear. Capt Richard I P.
2-5, I am a Police Officer. Not only do I not go out everyday in Riot Gear, but I've not been issued any. 99% of Law Enforcement does not wear any form of tactical uniform in their daily functions. Make fun of tactics all you like, but it still doesn't explain a need to make Law Enforcement look like Adam-12 in a Demolition Man style world. Because, that's what it honestly looks like. The beginning of Demolition Man, I figured I should make that clear. Capt Richard I P.
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Capt Richard I P.
SSG (Join to see) I edited item 1 to clarify, I was granting that some good points were made and need to be heard. I appreciate you bringing up this topic from a perspective that is generally not well-covered in the media.
I knew you were a police officer from your profile, and none of my comments were intended to offend you or any other police officer. I don't imagine most go out in full kit every day, although Maj Yates was arguing some need to based on threat, which I get, if detailed risk/reward has been done rather than knee-jerk 'armor up' reactions. Honestly, I think the military tends to be over-armored, reduces our speed and agility, adds additional drain on the body and definitely creates a barrier to engagement with the community. I really don't get the "Adam 12 and Demolition Man" references having not seen them, but a little googling makes them look somewhat similar in terms of uniform. I would argue the full 'riot' kit of modern police is far more intimidating and barrier creating than the costumes I see in screengrabs of demo man.
Lastly, I was not merely making fun of tactics, I am lambasting these specific officers for their misuse of tactics, I'm going to up that to detailing everything i can see wrong in the photo: Their weapons are up, oriented on a target that clearly poses no threat (unless local threat TTPs involve suicide bombs in satchels). They are violating AT LEAST three of the five safety rules without being able to see their fingers and selector switches. They are mobbing densely together which means that if incoming rounds or explosives are the principal threat (which their posture would imply) they are in the wrong formation (very wrong). Alternatively, if they're formed up shoulder to shoulder to respond to molotovs, rock throwing and stick attacks they need to sling their weapons, or at least point them at the deck, because their escalation of force is severely out of whack (by pointing those weapons they are declaring they are ready to kill.)
That criticism isn't meant to paint all officers with a single brush, but to hold them to the high standard to which they should be held.
Finally, the quote from the wire was meant to illustrate how this happens. You declare war on a specific type of commerce, you flirt with tyranny. You build a mindset of warriors, they're going to start looking for a war.
I knew you were a police officer from your profile, and none of my comments were intended to offend you or any other police officer. I don't imagine most go out in full kit every day, although Maj Yates was arguing some need to based on threat, which I get, if detailed risk/reward has been done rather than knee-jerk 'armor up' reactions. Honestly, I think the military tends to be over-armored, reduces our speed and agility, adds additional drain on the body and definitely creates a barrier to engagement with the community. I really don't get the "Adam 12 and Demolition Man" references having not seen them, but a little googling makes them look somewhat similar in terms of uniform. I would argue the full 'riot' kit of modern police is far more intimidating and barrier creating than the costumes I see in screengrabs of demo man.
Lastly, I was not merely making fun of tactics, I am lambasting these specific officers for their misuse of tactics, I'm going to up that to detailing everything i can see wrong in the photo: Their weapons are up, oriented on a target that clearly poses no threat (unless local threat TTPs involve suicide bombs in satchels). They are violating AT LEAST three of the five safety rules without being able to see their fingers and selector switches. They are mobbing densely together which means that if incoming rounds or explosives are the principal threat (which their posture would imply) they are in the wrong formation (very wrong). Alternatively, if they're formed up shoulder to shoulder to respond to molotovs, rock throwing and stick attacks they need to sling their weapons, or at least point them at the deck, because their escalation of force is severely out of whack (by pointing those weapons they are declaring they are ready to kill.)
That criticism isn't meant to paint all officers with a single brush, but to hold them to the high standard to which they should be held.
Finally, the quote from the wire was meant to illustrate how this happens. You declare war on a specific type of commerce, you flirt with tyranny. You build a mindset of warriors, they're going to start looking for a war.
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I suppose if we tell the bad guys to arm themselves only with revolvers and play nice then officers could go back to soft uniforms. Wearing the jump suits, tactical pants and polos or what ever serve a purpose.
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SSG (Join to see)
My threat isn't a guy with a black bandana with eye holes cut out, holding a bag with a large dollar sign on it, but that's the intentions being placed forth, TSgt Joshua Copeland
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From a tactical standpoint the soft uniform makes no sense. Though our LEOs should be easily distinguishable from our military, the use of hard equipment such as ballistic vests, AR platform rifles, Kevlars, MRAP SWAT response vehicles and the like have spawned from a necessity based on actual threat and their proven capabilities to meet said threats in real world examples (military conflicts). As a developer of tactical gear we focus on the individual and what best ensures their ability to complete their job as well as provide the best chances of that person returning safely home to their families. Today there is little difference in the threat to life of our military personnel overseas and our LEOs back home, though there is a difference in the amount of said threats in any generalized area in the United States. With bombs, large caliber ammunition and terrorist tactics being utilized by criminals in the United States, our officers must be afforded the ability to respond accordingly. Since our LEOs dont face the daily threat of IEDs or regular urban shoot outs, I don't think the MRAP and standard combat uniform need to replace standard squad cars and the every day patrol uniform, but such equipment needs to remain available in case of such incidents present themselves. That is why the mass majority of our police departments utilize a variety of tactical response units, SOPs and teams. SWAT shouldnt pull you over for speeding, nor should they be utilized for patrol in the first place, but they should be available to respond in full force if said speeding incident turns into an escalated situation that threatens the public, such as hostage situations, mass destruction attempts and/or terroristic activity.
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SSG (Join to see)
Thank you, SGT Kevin Brown. The premise of the idea is Adam-12. And, as photographed, I wear a distinguishable uniform every day. But, thanks to the wear and tear my body has received, the tailored vest over is a godsend. But according to the first round of this plan, even a tailored external best carrier is "too scary." I also wear leather, but not patten. And corfram shoes instead of boots, because they were military before Law Enforcement had boots.
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SGT Kevin Brown
Personally I would much rather see an officer wearing professional tactical clothing (which could include station pants and top) and effective gear (such as a fitted ballistic vest, boats, gloves and so on) patrolling then Barney Fife looking station uniforms that restrict movement and capabilities and provide absolutely no protection.
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I had no issue putting on a "traditional" looking uniform. It might not have been the most comfortable, but I was able to conduct my daily patrol duties in it. We had black BDUs that we could wear for certain activities. Tactical team members would make use of camouflage when necessary (e.g. hiking in to raid a meth lab), but it's wasn't a daily occurrence.
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SSG (Join to see)
It's an across the board sweep. And over the past almost decade, I've had more things added to me, which has cause random pain to my back and hips.
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