Why not just allow all Soldiers to test for the EIB, instead of inventing a new badge?

2017-04-02T11:40:00-04:00

We are all riflemen first right? Instead of inventing a new badge, why don't we reenforce the fact that every Soldier is a riflemen? This could also lead to the bolstering of combat readiness and capabilities of support units.

Note: only 11 series and 18 series could earn and wear the CIB.

Response by SSG Dennis O'Connor made Apr 2 at 2017 11:42 AM

2017-04-02T11:42:16-04:00

All soldiers can test for the EIB but only 11/18 series can wear it

Response by 1SG Darren James made Apr 2 at 2017 11:44 AM

2017-04-02T11:44:08-04:00

That wasn't the point of the EIB. When the CIB and EIB were conceived, they were designed so acknowledge those that chose to be Infantrymen. There was even a pay stipend to go with it. Every Soldier is a Rifleman, but not every Soldier chose to be Infantrymen. That was the point. I almost think that coming out with a badge for every other Soldier now, so many years later, is the equivalent of a Participation Medal.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 2 at 2017 11:47 AM

2017-04-02T11:47:16-04:00

The Army isn't the Marine Corps--all Soldiers are NOT all riflemen.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 4:10 PM

2017-04-02T16:10:45-04:00

Sir, I think you get it. I am Navy Ground Combat Support and we trained by Marines, and have a Gunny as Battalion Cadre 0311 type or used to be Force Type (that is gone now as they are with SOCOM) but anyway they train as if everyone is a Rifleman, and by having qualifications, this will increase readiness and preparedness for operating in a Combat and or forward contingency. We have a Combat Warfare qualification and it has helped our readiness for deployment and makes FTX's or training exercises easy as you do not have to reteach to everyone, and they get up to speed real quick. I think that you have a good point, and they need to do what we do as in when you leave unit and go to a new one you must earn that platform qualification and or requalify on your old device. So they should award, but do a requalification and or do it like this members that earn the device have to train others and even conduct the qualification boards, that is how we keep everyone engaged.

I also believe the Army saw the gaps from the last conflicts that we had in Iraq and Afghanistan and understand that depending on mission and environment, that you need to have trained personnel that can work and survive outside the wire and support other units and or understand how units can support them if needed.

Note: I am speaking about NECC type Warfare devices like EXW(Expeditionary Warfare) and SCW(Seabee Combat Warfare) not the others I as I herd and seen that the standards have been going down.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Apr 2 at 2017 6:00 PM

2017-04-02T18:00:20-04:00

You clearly do not understand how EIB awards work. EIB testing is above mere Level 1 warrior tasks that every MOS *should* be taught at BCT. And many of the tasks of the test are outside the MOS specific duties of non infantry soldiers. It is not just about shooting and moving.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 2 at 2017 8:09 PM

2017-04-02T20:09:58-04:00

Yeah, that sounds like a great idea until you look at the cost of twice a year rifle range visits to qualify for every unit in the Army. Cha-Ching! Then you have to ask yourself, what good is that much rifle training without tactics on how to move and fire.........another bite out of the budget and training scheduled for other trained MOS' So in my view the current siloization and specialization of MOS' is the most efficient.

BTW, most of the Army would not pass an EIB test which typically takes several days to administer properly. Because most of the Army is not proficient in Infantry weapon systems, tactics, or for that matter the physical fitness level to road march in full gear 12 miles in 3-4 hours. Your proposal to train the rest of the Army to that standard would make Recruitment almost impossible as well as rob other MOS' of valuable training time they used to specialize in their MOS skill sets. In high optempo times even Infantry units are hard pressed to administer the EIB test each year because it takes so much time as they are supposed to and some have to skip a year or two with the EIB test.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 9:02 PM

2017-04-02T21:02:20-04:00

Only someone who isn't in the Infantry could make such a suggestion.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-04-02T21:43:07-04:00

The two most passionately debated topics on Rallypoint: Politics and Army badges.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-04-02T21:43:21-04:00

It always amuses me to watch past and present grunts go ape shit over something like this. Hahaha I love it. Like kids fighting over crayons!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-04-02T21:43:53-04:00

Last time I checked any Soldier can test for and earn the EIB but, wearing the badge is reserved for 11 and 18 series.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 10:08 PM

2017-04-02T22:08:47-04:00

True, so why not authorize it for wear by all MOS series if requirements are met? Instead of make a new test and badge that is very similar.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 10:40 PM

2017-04-02T22:40:13-04:00

I think that there should be a "skill level one" badge that way it shows you really know all the basics and cant use phrases like "no one ever taught me that"

Response by MSgt George Cater made Apr 2 at 2017 11:15 PM

2017-04-02T23:15:03-04:00

I do not care what the Army does with their multitude of insignia or what their rational is for creating more stuff to go on the uniform.
I only care what the Army does about seeing that EVERY soldier can fight if the need arises, as it has time and again through out Army history and because we are on the same side in combat.
That said, it does make sense to allow non-infantry soldiers to try for and earn the EIB. Since the EIB is seen by the Army as a significant achievement that shows the wearer has done about as much as possible short of combat to be a war fighter and trigger puller, it stands to reason that anything that would motivate and reward non-11 series troops to enhance their combat skills is a win-win and no brainer for the Army. Put another way, if it keeps another situation like Jessica Lynch's unit being unable to fight effectively from happening, it will be more than worth it.

Response by SFC George Smith made Apr 2 at 2017 11:20 PM

2017-04-02T23:20:35-04:00

Because it's called Infantry for a reason and it for Combat arms

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Apr 3 at 2017 12:41 AM

2017-04-03T00:41:05-04:00

My concern about letting everyone earn an EIB is that it would result in the standards being lowered. In the sixties when I took the EIB test very few people passed it and the only people taking it was infantry NCO's and officers plus an occassional specialist. I am assuming that non-infantry people would have an even higher failure rate and they would bitch until the army lowered the standards so that more people would pass. I have already seen other awards watered down to the point that they are meaningless and I would hate to see that happen to the EIB. My EIB and my Drill Sergeant Identification Badge are they only two things that I received that that I am actually proud of.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 3:39 AM

2017-04-03T03:39:50-04:00

I don't have a issue with this at all just something else I can add to my resume.

Response by SFC Giovanni Bennett made Apr 3 at 2017 8:16 AM

2017-04-03T08:16:01-04:00

Everyone can already test for the EIB and earn a certificate. They just can't wear the badge or be awarded the badge unless the are in the Infantry. It's not just taking a test that makes you an Expert Infantryman, it's the grueling punishment we endured every single day as an Infantryman. Yeah some other jobs are tough but they aren't the MOS that gets sent all alone into the lions den every single day we were deployed.

Response by SGT David T. made Apr 3 at 2017 8:16 AM

2017-04-03T08:16:15-04:00

Support Soldiers can compete for and earn one. However, they cannot wear it unless they were 11 or 18 series at the time of award. I would be ok with allowing other MOSs to wear it if they earn it as it is all skill based. I do feel that that only infantry units should administer the testing to help ensure that the standards remain high. I am a bit of a sadist, so having more people hear the dreaded "you are a no go at this station do you know why?" would amuse me lol.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 8:49 AM

2017-04-03T08:49:16-04:00

Or, better yet, leave it the way it is and let everyone who is not an 11 or 18 series just be happy with what they have, do and can achieve. Seriously, if people need bling to feel good about themselves then they should enlist for an MOS that allows them to achieve that bling, and if they chose not to go that route then their proficiency in their MOS will be noted with promotions as they progress through the ranks. Certain MOS's have certain rewards for what they train for and accomplish...everyone else just needs to be proud of what they're doing and their accomplishments.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 9:50 AM

2017-04-03T09:50:27-04:00

Gonna be some upset Infantrymen on this one........

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 2:06 PM

2017-04-03T14:06:24-04:00

Because the infantry is the Queen of battle and every queen needs her jewels and decorations...

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Apr 3 at 2017 11:12 PM

2017-04-03T23:12:59-04:00

The notion that we are all rifleman first is a Marine idea that is widely misinterpreted and has no bearing on the Marine Corps or the Army in regards to being an Infantryman. This is something you will figure out if you become an Infantryman. It is a sad fact that people think you complete Basic Training and you're "basically an Infantryman".

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 4 at 2017 12:06 AM

2017-04-04T00:06:34-04:00

1LT Private RallyPoint Member Good question. As a former Soldier who spent his life supporting infantry, I hold both the EIB and especially the CIB in very high regard, as I do the EFMB and CMB. I believe the CIB and EIB are fine the way they are; 11 and 18 only. We are not all Infantry, and we never will be. We serve in their units, support them, fight with them and all along side of them, and in many units even act like them... But, only a rare few are actually Infantry. The CIB and EIB need to remain pure as conceived.

I was very happy when the CAB was introduced, as were many branches, like Armor, Engineer, Aviation, and MP who had been trying to get a similar combat badge for years. I had been shot at, and returned fire in combat long before the CAB was introduced, so it made sense. Yes, there were issues with the CAB, as there are with all awards, but I am straying off course.

I don't like the idea of EAB, but it makes better sense than allowing everyone to compete for the EIB.

You should only be able to earn the EIB, if you can earn the CIB.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2017 12:11 PM

2017-04-04T12:11:14-04:00

Because it will make their blue cords cry.

Kidding aside, don't take from the Infantry what is theirs. If we want something of our own then craft it and make it a challenge to get.

Kidding aside, the Infantry and Medics can piss off with their angry little cry baby BS. They have their badges it's not any of their business. It's our responsibility to make this badge actually worth something not theirs.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2017 4:50 PM

2017-04-04T16:50:34-04:00

If it were ONLY a marksmanship competition, I would agree with you. However, there is a LOT more to EIB than just being able to fire a rifle. You must know several different weapons systems (almost any weapon in our Army's arsenal -- though you're only tested on 10 per Testing cycle), be able to perform lifesaving measures on the battlefield, execute a patrol and mitigate any generally unexpectable factors therein through the use of signaling, employing fires, maneuvers, various disruptive weaponry, etc., and perform at a high level of physical and mental fitness, as well as being able to perform under pressure.

Remember, not every soldier is a rifleman, and not every rifleman is an Infantryman. We have our own badge because we have one of the most -- if not THE most demanding and complex jobs in the military, though it would seem like we don't. There is a lot to it, and while the technical knowledge isn't as complex, being able to retain and recall the technical knowledge, employ the appropriate action, and continue the mission to completion under some of the most difficult of conditions (elemental exposure, starvation, dehydration, sleep depravation, etc) is what sets our specialty apart.

It's not the trigger-pulling that makes us what we are. It's our ability to be proficient --and perform-- both technically and tactically. Do I think there should be an EAB? No, absolutely not. Because they would only be able to test basic soldier skills (which does not set you apart, as everyone is taught this from day one). In my mind, this is another trophy to celebrate mediocrity.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Apr 4 at 2017 6:35 PM

2017-04-04T18:35:24-04:00

Because not everyone is an Infantryman. Simple enough answer.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Apr 4 at 2017 6:56 PM

2017-04-04T18:56:09-04:00

The EIB is reserved for the Infantry for a reason, no need to change it. I can see the need for a training event that challenges Soldiers to be experts at their craft. If making a badge is the only way to inspire or offer incentive I am slightly dissapointed, hopefully folks would want to excell sans badge, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Not every Soldier is a rifleman and not every Soldier conducts Infantry tasks. I am a medic and have tested and earned my EIB and I will be the first to tell you that I am not Infantry nor do I want to be. I am their medic and I have my own careerfield and skillset to manage. I think your head is in the right place and you mean well, but I fear this would create divide not unity and espirit de corps.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 4 at 2017 7:21 PM

2017-04-04T19:21:58-04:00

Everyone gets a badge

Response by COL John McClellan made Apr 4 at 2017 9:40 PM

2017-04-04T21:40:28-04:00

I don't think Infantry Branch agrees...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 17 at 2018 11:20 AM

2018-06-17T11:20:16-04:00

The Marines say they are riflemen 1st-and prove it. In fact many units let their non Grunt MOS folks try the EIB test- some actually force them to.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 6:06 PM

2019-01-07T18:06:38-05:00

I don't disagree with that philosophy, but it's not an Army philosophy, rather, a Marine Corps one.
I don't agree that any MOS should be awarded the EIB either. Any MOS can participate, they just can't earn and wear it.
I don't believe there is a need for another badge either. There are plenty to earn.