Why is there so much disdain for the 82nd Airborne Division?

Jake Lang — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:16:01 -0400

Hello 82nd Airborne Division, hope you are all doing well. Sadly something as of late has been bothering me a bit, so I have to ask. I’ve noticed a lot of unfavorable comments (hate) about this unit. Keep in mind, should I get my jump wings with just an Option 4 contract, this is the unit I wanna be in and hopefully get assigned to. But since I’ve told many veterans (both on and off of here) and some current service members of that, I’ve been getting nothing but disdain for it. Few people who I’ve talked to actually came from your guys Division and they had nothing but the utmost respect and appreciation for serving in such a fine unit (arguably the FINEST, if ever). But when I talk to many others, there’s always someone talking smack saying stuff like “they’re undisciplined”, “they’ve lost their former glory”, “nothing special about a bunch of Hooah-wannabes”, “18th Corps is where careers go to die, 82nd is where even 18th Corps gave up”, or “Don’t...just don’t. You’ll regret being there and hate the rest of your career”, etc.

With all that said, I gotta ask: Why is there so much hate for the 82nd? Has the Division really lost some honor and semblance of who it really was. Everyone knows the 82nd’s history and the caliber of people who serve in it, but am I missing something here? I get there are some bad apples in a bunch, but is to a significantly noticeable amount or is ragging on the Division a new past-time?

Hopefully, you guys can give me some insight. Hope everyone is doing well.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Aug 12 at 2020 6:14 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:14:44 -0400

I spent 7 years in the 82nd then the next 15 in Special Forces. I left because yes, I was unhappy and frankly had more to offer. Yet, I will tell you that going there, whether good or bad will make you a better Soldier. I dont regret re-enlisting to go to the 82nd. I only regret staying there that long.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 6:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 18:28:23 -0400

A large problem that you will come across as far as people's disdain for the 82nd is that it is a black hole. Once you're in, you may move battalions or even brigades, but most of the time, you dont leave, unless you specifically request to. I have a very good busy of mine that just retired as an E-9 with 22 years in. All of which were spent in the 82nd, despite numerous attempts at PCS requests.

The big question is this: WHY do you want to be in the 82nd? Is it because of rumor or reputation? If so, you are chasing a pipe dream. Every unit has its share of BS and shenanigans. Some good, some bad. It comes down to what you make of it. The 173rd Airborne Brigade is also a solid place for young guns to start their career. As is the 25th ID and 4th ID. It all comes down to what you want. If you aspire to Special Operations, my advice to you, and I'm not sure if MSG Dan Castaneda would agree or not, would be to start at a line unit, learn your job and become proficient, then start tacking on additional skills (airborne, Ranger, Sapper {if applicable}, etc) and then pursue your goal of special operations. This gives you time to gain proficiency, take a deployment or three, establish a baseline understanding of the military's ins and outs, and perform your job in theater before you try for something that may be well above your competency level right from the jump.

Response by SSG Steven Chirco made Aug 12 at 2020 9:18 PM

SSG Steven Chirco — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:18:41 -0400

I served in 82nd 95-99 and it was a great unit. I can only assume it still is. Although, there is a lot of cockiness that does run rampant there but kinda goes with the territory. Being airborne does kinda make one feel “above” those “dirty legs” but the funny part is, once you hit the ground you become a dirty leg too lol. So I think that’s what other talk about when talking shit, it’s like airborne calling rangers undisciplined, next step up in special forces. Now, I worked with 18th Airborne Corps MP brigade in Afghanistan and all the shit talking about them is all earned, the biggest bunch of unprofessional commands I’ve ever worked with, they also would lie on official reports. Soldiers were decent but fed on the tone of leadership which meant, pass the buck and never take responsibility!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Aug 13 at 2020 12:40 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 00:40:55 -0400

There are haters and then there are those with cult like devotion. Just depends on you really.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 2:24 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:24:11 -0400

I'm in the 82nd and found it to be a very challenging assignment. I really enjoyed it. Now I'm an officer so it's a bit different. For those that are enlisted the days of being stuck in Div for your whole career are over. It isn't something that the Div really controls. In will say a couple things. First, it has a very high operational tempo. You will be training often and at a high level. Second, your leadership will expect a lot out of you if you want to be successful. It is highly encouraged to attend ranger school and is borderline required to become a jumpmaster. A lot of people get frustrated because they don't want to do these. I honestly am going to a different unit soon but it's because the Army requires me to change units so often. I'm looking forward to a place that has a little bit slower ops tempo. But if you're young and want to prove yourself the 82nd is the perfect place for you.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 13 at 2020 6:15 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:15:20 -0400

I am. It sure disdain is the word. First, if someone wishes to remain AB, there are not a lot of options. The unit in Italy, is not large enough for everyone to rotate to. But as stated you can request. Second, I have had many friends over the years absolutely love the fact that they never PCS. I have found that those with disdain, either do not like the tempo, or have fallen into a rut through some sort of Nin-Judicial punishment. The negative about lifelong careers in one spot is that you buil a reputation, that is either good or bad. Since it is a city within itself news travel fast. So no matter where you go,?your reputation precedes you.

Those with disdain who claim it is because they can’t get another assignment are kidding themselves, all you have to do is contact Branch or your in service recruiter and take an non AB assignment. Disdain, I doubt.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 13 at 2020 6:22 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:22:29 -0400

The average Soldier at Brag are where they want to be. Most with disdain have fallen out of favor for one of many reasons and have found that a base where most never leave, you cannot outrun your reputation.

The reason it is hard to get an assignment is that most in the AB community do not want to go heavy. For AB there is essentially one other Brigade that does not account for the ability to rotate Soldiers on a consistent bases. So you either ask for Italy and get lucky with timing, or you ask to give up your status and take an assignment elsewhere.

In closing, if someone has disdain for any situation, all one has to do is wait your time, PCS, or get out. One thing is true, if you fall out of favor it is hard to outrun that anywhere. Most personal disdain comes from someone who has created situation themselves.

Response by SSG Jeff Furgerson made Aug 13 at 2020 6:59 AM

SSG Jeff Furgerson — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 06:59:45 -0400

I served in the 82nd for about 6 years, as far as I’m concerned it was one of the greatest divisions in the Army, I made brothers for life here and you will love their history and camaderarie too. Just my opinion though

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 10:07 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:07:41 -0400

Fort Bragg truly is where careers go to die. When I enlisted back in 2007, I fully intended to stay Active Duty for 20 years. I requested assignment to Fort Bragg after my assignment in Korea so that my wife could be closer to family while I was in Korea and then after I got back. This was granted. At first everything was great, but as time wore on, the Division Reviews, the retirement ceremonies (my unit was always tasked with providing Soldiers to stand in formation and look pretty while muckety-mucks droned on at length), the mandatory optional events, Operation Clean Sweep, constant JRTC rotations (at one point, we had personnel and helicopters at JRTC for every rotation) etc. got to be too much silliness, so I didn't re-enlist after almost 11 years of Active Duty. I immediately went into the Reserve to keep my retirement clock running, and honestly the Reserve is a mixed-bag; both good and bad qualities. But if you think being in the 82nd is all glory and everything in the recruiting videos, I would say you are in for a rude awakening. Be aware that in addition to the actual real-world operations, there are things like sweeping parking lots, raking dirt, mopping rain, days-long lockdowns if/when a piece of sensitive equipment goes missing, etc.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 10:10 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:10:44 -0400

The 82nd is unlike any other unit because it doesn't know how to slow down. The optempo is extremely high. If you can survive in the 82nd you will succeed anywhere else in the Army, ANYWHERE.
Part of the high optempo is the training, you will always be training, however, while other units train, the 82nd still has to jump out of planes. Preparing men, weapons, and equipment to get thrown out of a plane takes up more time. The other reason for the optempo is the taskings, FORSCOM and Corp are also on Fort Bragg and they love to hit the easy button and send the taskings down to division. I usually have 2-3 people gone on months long taskings at any given time, regardless of what is going on with my training cycle.
The 82nd is a great unit that still does great things, 1st Brigade did 3 Immediate Reaction Force deployments in 6 months, the last one was 25 years ago.
The caliber of Paratroopers is still high, they volunteered to be there. There are still problems, but they are not usually as bad as other units.
Overall you will find a love/hate relationship with Division. People love to hate it but soon as they leave and go somewhere else they complain until they come back, and they will be back.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 13 at 2020 11:30 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:30:37 -0400

Only Legs, fails and wannabe's. Hard charging, always deployable within 14 hours world-wide. Proud heritage and too many battle honors since 1917. Never missed a conflict or deployment in it's 103 years. We walk with pride because we earned it and those folks would not understand it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 6:44 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 18:44:33 -0400

It’s a tough life. Higher HQ ask a lot out of the 82nd so there’s always something going on. It is what you make it. Love it or hate it, it’s still a unit with higher than average standards and a mission set different than any other division. I enjoyed my time there but also recognize that it’s not for everyone. It takes a strong individual to live a paratroopers life.

Response by SGT Daniel Rocco Ames made Aug 13 at 2020 9:48 PM

SGT Daniel Rocco Ames — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 21:48:08 -0400

Is it sounds like you've been speaking to some angry legs or some low speed high drag soldiers.

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Aug 14 at 2020 10:38 AM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 10:38:04 -0400

I spent most of my career in Special Forces. However, I completed the 82nd Airborne Division's Advanced Airborne Course (Jumpmaster) and served one year afterwards as a Platoon Sergeant in the 1/325 AIR. I am very proud of my time in the All-American. Most of the negative comments you hear or read about the 82nd come from people who a-have never served with the 82nd or b-might have spent some time but had some bad experiences.
Now days, service in the 82nd is the best decision that a soldier can make if he is considering becoming a Special Forces soldier and/or a Ranger later on.
My nephew was assigned to the 82nd right out of jump school and although he didn't make a career out of the Army, he remains very proud of his service.
That said, if you feel that you have what it takes, go for it... All the Way!

Response by SSG John Jensen made Aug 14 at 2020 11:38 AM

SSG John Jensen — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:38:16 -0400

I think it's mostly envy.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 14 at 2020 2:33 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:33:51 -0400

The army is what you make of it. Like opinions and assholes, the army is the same way. Some units are good, some units are bad. You could be in a notoriously known bad division but still enjoy your time because of those around and lucked out with decent to great leadership. I've heard both ways for the 82nd along with every other unit. Part of the glory of the 82nd is the fact that they performed a tactic never done before or proven in combat, but just as many other units have done the same, and just as many have a great history. There's dirtbags in every unit just as there has always been. Opinions will vary. Some soldiers have had significant trauma that also drives there's remarks. Behind that "don't do it... You'll be sorry" could be a very loaded comment.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Aug 14 at 2020 6:19 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 18:19:13 -0400

You can always find people in or coming from a unit that large with hurt feelings and what you make of it is well, what you make of it.

Response by SPC Perry Gresham made Aug 16 at 2020 10:04 PM

SPC Perry Gresham — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 22:04:51 -0400

I was in a long time ago. But I still love it and pay for it every day with a twisted back and a lot of painful compressed nerves. But really, any oppinion from a leg is just that. Lol

Response by SGT Johnny Williams made Aug 27 at 2020 7:14 AM

SGT Johnny Williams — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 07:14:01 -0400

I’ve never heard anyone call the 82nd undisciplined. It was probably a leg who said that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2020 9:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 21:20:59 -0400

Currently in the division, and most of the comments you have mentioned are just simply not true from my experiences. I have been afforded opportunities in my career here that are not available anywhere else in the Army. Your career can be set up for success forever if you are highly motivated and take advantage of all the opportunities the 82nd has for schools and to work in positions often two levels above your current paygrade. The only thing you mentioned I could see maybe being true is "losing the former glory" but you'll understand what that means when you get here.

From my experiences, those who hate it so severely were typically unsuccessful here because they could not deal with the OPTEMPO or were unwilling to perform at the level that is required of them. To put it simply those are the guys who just couldn't hack it in Division.

Response by SGT Christina Voakes made Jan 13 at 2021 10:10 PM

SGT Christina Voakes — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 22:10:34 -0500

You can either hang or you can't. Most people hate it because they can't. Those of that loved it could. You can't be a shitbag and if you are you are called out. They expect more from you and rightfully so.