Why is the spectrum of housing so much different from top to bottom? Why do junior Soldiers get the quarters that show major wear?

2016-05-29T20:53:46-04:00

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2016 9:22 PM

2016-05-29T21:22:28-04:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member No disrespect intended, but rank has its privileges, and it is the same in the civilian world.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 29 at 2016 9:29 PM

2016-05-29T21:29:36-04:00

They negotiated their position better with a future employer

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 29 at 2016 10:00 PM

2016-05-29T22:00:14-04:00

Because housing is part of Total Compensation Package (pay). However, you will note at the extreme paygrades (E9 to O6) they are close (about 80%)

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2016 11:44 PM

2016-05-29T23:44:55-04:00

Must be an Army thing, granted the last time I lived on base was 1995 as a dependent. The base I lived at, the only officers that had significantly large houses were O6's and GO's. We did live in what they called "Officer Housing." It was the same physical structure as the E side. In some cases some officers lived in E side. There were a block of houses that first term junior enlisted lived that were small but if they had a large family they put in the bigger houses.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made May 30 at 2016 12:57 AM

2016-05-30T00:57:54-04:00

O-6's and above have the larger on base homes, for obvious reasons. For the other officer ranks, it may depend on the base and/or the particular service.
I lived on base once during my career. Lived in military All Hands housing in Yokohama Japan. My next door neighbor was a Navy Commander (O-5), my other next door neighbor was a 1st Class Petty Officer (E-6). The houses were the same, Two story, 3 bdrm, 1 bath, fenced back yard. I actually had the bigger front yard since i was the corner unit (yay me lol).

Response by TSgt David L. made May 30 at 2016 3:12 AM

2016-05-30T03:12:08-04:00

RHIP! Questions? LOL

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 30 at 2016 5:35 AM

2016-05-30T05:35:18-04:00

I have traveled extensively and no base from any service that has upgraded there housing (which they are all doing) has inequity. Housing sizes are determined by grade then availability. The standard of living has increased exponentially over the past 8 to ten years. I hope your base upgrades soon.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 7:55 AM

2016-05-30T07:55:10-04:00

Because housing is part of the total compensation package ( Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS ) and officers essentially negotiated better terms of employment with their employer ( SGM Erik Marquez ). You could ask the same question about lots of classes of Servicemembers: replace "officers" with "those who are married" or "those who are single" or "those who have 1 to x children" and this response is fairly similar. We all know the "rules of the game" and choose to exist inside of the system-----it has never and will never make sense to me that those Servicemembers who are married and/or have a team of kids are compensated "better" by DoD than their single peers or peers with less children, but that's how the system works. We have the option of accepting this (and complaining about it!) or deciding we want to renegotiate the terms of our employment (ie, by separating, taking the steps necessary to "move up" the compensation ladder, through, say OCS or other commissioning programs, getting married, having/adopting kids, etc).

Also, I do think this "officers have better housing" perspective is less and less accurate, especially overseas, although the marital status and total number of dependents issue is perhaps worse overseas than CONUS.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 30 at 2016 4:36 PM

2016-05-30T16:36:49-04:00

Which answer would you like? Rank has its privileges. They get paid more. They probably have more BAH which affords more house the most Junior of Enlisted. It could be any combination of these or none of these.

For all we know, it could be an image thing. Put officers in better houses to depict a successful leader. In our society we translate success by how many cars are in your driveway or how many stories are on your house. I wouldn't be surprised if we carried that belief into our military.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 4:48 PM

2016-05-30T16:48:11-04:00

1SG, I am currently active duty stationed at Fort Gordon and live on base, my quarters are the same as officers up to the rank of LTC.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 8:44 PM

2016-05-30T20:44:15-04:00

Don't have an answer to that. But the difference at some bases is stagering. My wife set up housing while I was deployed when I was an NCO. The place was a spider infested dump. I got a commission a few years down the road and all the houses we have lived in are amazing. It's really not fair but living on base is a choice. You can choose to spend your money better.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 30 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-05-30T21:00:05-04:00

May depend on level of rank, but as others have noted, rank has its privileges. Still, when I was at Ft. Bliss, our post housing neighborhood hand E1-E6 and O1, and for sure O2s and some WOs.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2016 9:06 PM

2016-05-30T21:06:37-04:00

On the Air Force bases where I served the housing was basically the same. However, it was separated. But, then that is ancient history.

Response by SPC Kevin Busto made May 31 at 2016 7:43 AM

2016-05-31T07:43:16-04:00

My last duty station was Fort Knox. E5 and below lived in a three story brick building with a common latrine.

Some E5's had bathrooms in their rooms. E6's lived in a little better housing, however E7's & above lived in a couple of really nice apartment buildings!

It was strange, if you had a family, but we're E1 to E4 you had to get special permission, if it was available, to get post housing?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 8:31 AM

2016-05-31T08:31:27-04:00

1SG- it comes down to two things: recruitment and retention. The Army has to offer minimum compensations to recruit and retain these certain groups, whether it be officers, NCOs, or junior enlisted; married or single. For example- a married PFC with one child would have a difficult time paying for an apartment for his/her small family w/out the addition of BAH w/dependents. Some might have that old-school train of thought: they shouldn't have family as a PFC; well, maybe not as a 18 or 19 year old... but tell me the Army wouldn't be happy to have a 25 year old private w/family, with a score of 87 on the ASVAB, fill a critical need MOS. Getting back to the officers- in order to recruit a college grad away from the potentially well-compensating civilian sector, you HAVE to offer these things. Officer recruiting is difficult enough as it is. Something as simple as offering a certain level of housing can go a long ways to getting that person in boots.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 9:11 AM

2016-05-31T09:11:04-04:00

I believe that the whole premise of receiving better housing and living conditions as an officer stems from history. Officers were typically nobles and enlisted were commoners, and with nobility came money and property. This is a principle that I believe never really ended and continue today, just to a much smaller degree. These are simply my thoughts the matter.

Response by Sgt Bry K. made May 31 at 2016 11:45 AM

2016-05-31T11:45:21-04:00

Like other have stated- because they're officers.
Officers are the ones leading men. A fresh O1 will oversee an entire platoon of men as soon as he hits the fleet, which takes an E5 or E6 to be a plt Sgt who will also fall under the O1. Officers have a lot more responsibility from the beginning and anything that any of those guys do under him falls on him. So while I have always hated the term "with rank comes privileges", I do believe that with rank canes responsibility. And I believe that those with a lot of responsibility do deserve some compensation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 12:04 PM

2016-05-31T12:04:41-04:00

It goes back to the early days of Modern Military where enlistedmen were common folk. Those who could be paid dirt and treated poorly because their social standing was low. Whereas to be an Officer you had to be a "Gentleman," you had to own land, or a business, or come from a well off family. Your social standing apparently qualified you to be a leader. Obviously someone who came fron a life like that wouldn't join if they were to be treated and paid the same as the common folk, so they would have to be compensated.
It's still pretty much the same system.
To become an officer these days the most usual route is to go to college first.
To go to college you need money.
More money = higher social class
Higher social class = (apparently) better leader.
Obviously this doesn't apply to scholarships or grants and loans.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 1:12 PM

2016-05-31T13:12:25-04:00

I believe it depends on the base. Here at White Sands we live in an amazing house. Im an E5. A house is what you choose to make of it.....you could always live off post.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 1:15 PM

2016-05-31T13:15:54-04:00

I agree with you!! While brand new LTs get BHA E-5 who has been in longer has to live in the barracks with privates and have to go to the dfac. It's pathetic in my opinion. We get treated like kinds. Just because they're officer doesn't mean they're good at their jobs as my experience with one particular platoon leader I had issues with. It is unfair but nothing is going to change unfortunately. As I mentioned above it's unfair that E-5 don't get BHA and forced to have a meal card which I never use and brand new butter bars get everything. Sorry but this has been fuming me for awhile.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made May 31 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-05-31T13:36:06-04:00

My question would be why do the Air force and the Navy have better pay, housing. and better dinning facilities than the ARMY and the Marines. when one of them stay on base in ARMY housing they still get paid because they consider it substandard housing. check it out if you don't believe me. Why do the different branches have different pay for the same ranks.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made May 31 at 2016 2:20 PM

2016-05-31T14:20:13-04:00

The only disagreement I have with housing is how the BAH works. A PVT with 3 kids pays a few hundred for the same house that an NCO with 3 kids pays 1000 or more. Specific Numbers depend on location. At FT Stewart my brother-in-law was paying 1200 and his neighbor was only paying around 600 for the exact same house. That never made much sense to me.

Response by SFC Dean Wyman made May 31 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-05-31T15:41:31-04:00

The rank structure was emplemented in the 1700's and was based on the land owning gentry that were responsible for outfitting and paying for the endentured, the uneducated and the commoners that worked their lands.
The system has continued in that spirit for generations, with the officers being of a supposed "better" class of people whose education and social stature was closer to the elite that run the country.
In today's military, the rank structure represents an outdated caste system protected by an officer corps lacking morals, courage or true patriotism. As an example, officers receive graduate degrees, on military time, that the military pays for. Yet an NCO has to beg for time to gain higher education. An 0-4 with 7 years time in service makes more than a CSM with 20 plus years. Etc, etc, etc.
If anyone doubts this, ask yourself. When was the last time you met an officer who wouldn't throw his own children under a moving bus if it secured him a promotion. And when the answer is, "I know this Captain or Major....", you need to realize that by the time they make 0-6, they've had their balls cut off and they've sold their souls.
With the glaring problems castrating our military, why are there no active duty officers standing up and trying to save our country? Doubling down on their cowardice, these same officers retire and THEN start hitting the talk shows to complain.
And as if further proof of undeserved pay, position and benefits was needed, just consider this. The last two heads of the scandal ridden VA were West Point officers. The former head of the CIA who was fired for security breaches and infidelity was a West Point officer.
The rank and pay structure needs to be re-worked, along with how officers are selected.
I believe EVERYONE does three years as enlisted, and THEN you can apply for a commission or the Academies.
Now wait for it.....let the officer corps rebuttals and excuses begin.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 4:29 PM

2016-05-31T16:29:31-04:00

I think a more important question to ask might be, "Do the junior enlisted get adequate housing?" Those who have negotiated better terms of employment should not be denied the housing they have. However, if it means that the junior personnel have to live in substandard housing, then something is wrong with the system.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 5:39 PM

2016-05-31T17:39:20-04:00

As many have said on here, with the privatized housing this inequity has been going away. In fact, I'd turn the question around and ask, why do officers pay more for the same house? I share a duplex with an E7. We both fork over our entire BAH which means because I'm an officer I get the privilege of paying $200 a month more for the exact same house. The single family homes in our neighborhood are reserved for E8-E9 and O4 and up. There is an O6 living on the next street over. I don't think there are any E8's living in the neighborhood but if there were they would pay almost $400 a month less for the exact same house that the O6 lives in.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 5:39 PM

2016-05-31T17:39:21-04:00

Because they made different life choices. Everyone wearing the uniform made a choice. They chose to enlist or they went to college and commissioned. Those are two different roads. The enlisted side does the heavy lifting because that is the direction they chose to go. The officer side is accountable for the success or failure of those doing the heavy lifting. That is the route they chose to go. If you are unsatisfied with your choice, and in good standing with the military, you can change your station. Then you can have a better living situation. The whole meritocracy concept is pretty old.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 5:41 PM

2016-05-31T17:41:42-04:00

Being a single officer, I was never given housing, only BAH, so I am not an expert on this question. However, it is my understanding that housing is based on rank groupings similar to your Geneva category on your ID card and your number of dependents. I am not sure how much this has changed with the growing privatized on-post housing.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made May 31 at 2016 5:42 PM

2016-05-31T17:42:51-04:00

I think that statement is highly situational. As a 2LT, I knew many NCOs who had better housing than me. I think it's more accurate to say, senior ranks have better housing than junior ranks. In that sense, IMHO, senior ranks have earned that privilege.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-05-31T18:26:53-04:00

Think about the age and mind set of the individuals. Young enlisted troops with family are your 20-25 years olds who are still partying while their kids are sleeping or maybe the kids are running around destroying the house while the parents party. I know not always but a good majority have not grown up yet enough to take care of a house and maintain it that is one reason they choose to live on base so they don't have to maintain a home. Something goes wrong, someone else fixes it.

Young officers have finished college, they are a little older before starting a family. Therefore they are a little more mature when it comes to taking care of a home.

With this being said that is probably a very good reason why the enlisted housing seems to be in worst shape. At least that is what I have noticed in my career. Most young enlisted, enlist for housing as a benefit. Officers know that investing in buying a home might be a better choice.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made May 31 at 2016 6:38 PM

2016-05-31T18:38:03-04:00

The CEO of a major corporation lives better than the mail room clerk. A Flag Officer lives better than an E-1. How difficult is this to understand 1SG Private RallyPoint Member With a masters degree I'm sure you not only understand the concept but should be capable of moving to the ranks of the Commissioned Officers.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2016 6:58 PM

2016-05-31T18:58:24-04:00

Officers have a commission which demands specific quality of work and should reflect quality of life. However, after living in three bases, enlisted housing seems to take the bottom of the bucket for maintenance. They're usually the oldest. Not only that, the housing personnel seem to feel they can push lower enlisted around more and make them pay out of pocket for damages done through years of wear on poorly selected materials (i.e. They'll force a family with young kids to pay to replace warn fake floors, they di a patch job and pocket the money).

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made May 31 at 2016 9:58 PM

2016-05-31T21:58:19-04:00

On many bases that is no longer the truth. Privatized housing changed this.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jun 1 at 2016 1:33 AM

2016-06-01T01:33:26-04:00

A MAJOR factor in Base housing is dependent children. Doesn't really matter the rank. Those with 4 kids will get a bigger Hacienda. Most times it's in a better hood on post. Granted, the waiting list is longer...

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 7:57 PM

2016-06-01T19:57:54-04:00

For the same reason that college graduates who are professionals (read: non liberal arts majors) have better housing than high school graduates just entering the workforce.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 10:37 PM

2016-06-01T22:37:43-04:00

Fraternization I'd think. Also they make more money so on post will save army money offering them that

Response by CPO Gene Gysin made Jun 1 at 2016 11:02 PM

2016-06-01T23:02:21-04:00

Umm, because an O1 has more responsibility than an E5 in 90% of the cases?

Don't like it? Get a commission...

Response by CW4 Jeff Fichter made Jun 1 at 2016 11:54 PM

2016-06-01T23:54:51-04:00

Flight school starts every two weeks. Put in your packet for that or OCS. Opportunity is there if you use your resources. If not, that's on you.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 6:58 AM

2016-06-02T06:58:13-04:00

RHIP

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 7:41 AM

2016-06-02T07:41:51-04:00

I live on post in old duplex homes built during the 60s. They've been "upgraded" but we still have clogged sinks, battle mold issues, ripped carpet, chipped bathroom tile etc. Still waiting on those work orders for 6 months now. Cosmetic I know. I took care of some maintenance on my own. It's better than being homeless.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Jun 2 at 2016 10:09 AM

2016-06-02T10:09:31-04:00

Well, this has been a question that has been asked many times. Top, it is just the way it is. I have always had decent housing when I lived on post. Officers make more money, the housing goes with the deal. Officers are supposed to project this image of authority. Like the pay differential between NCOs and officers, it is just the way it is....the pay was supposed to be narrowed, but was not. I doubt the housing situation will ever change First Sergeant!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-06-02T11:13:02-04:00

I'm sorry. Which officers, because company grade officers don't get nice housing. Take a stroll down the "officer ghetto" on fort bliss. I even asked if I could live in the lower enlisted housing that's how bad it was.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-06-02T11:13:42-04:00

We have officers getting BAH and soldiers that are older and have been in dont get the same oppertunity because they choose to stay single.... but thats an age old question that will never get answered...

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made Jun 2 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-06-02T11:42:48-04:00

It's an antiquated system.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 12:16 PM

2016-06-02T12:16:48-04:00

Each step up the ladder of leadership brings you a larger share of pay, prestige, and privileges. These are earned rewards for your willingness to accept greater responsibilities. They are not outright gifts. You are expected to pay back every dollar... in work and conscientious concern for your men and your unit, in many jobs well done.

The Noncom's Guide, 19624-18

Response by SSG Scott Bregi made Jun 2 at 2016 12:20 PM

2016-06-02T12:20:54-04:00

It not just a disparity between officers and enlisted but the disparity between the services. I was stationed at Ft. Wainwright, AK and in the 8-plex housing unit on base where my family and I resided had two Air Force enlisted personnel living in the same building. It was not very fair to the Army families that lived there when the Air Force personnel still received 1/2 their BAQ AND along with Govt. quarters when us Army families got nothing. The Air Force deemed them Substandard but the Army said they were good to go.!

Response by CPL Bruce Lee made Jun 2 at 2016 12:30 PM

2016-06-02T12:30:51-04:00

Why is everyone upset over his question/opinion? Having a dissent idea isn't the end of the world. Sup taking everything so personal. I'm retired of enlisted vs officer mentality. Let's conduct ourselves as the US Military. Let's keep our Core Values at mind.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 12:50 PM

2016-06-02T12:50:46-04:00

We are an Aristocratic nation, the middle class actually pays for it all, while super wealthy hide under umbrella corperations. We top are men they are gentleman.

Response by PO3 Larry Tj made Jun 2 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-06-02T13:16:44-04:00

That's the perks that come with the edecutaion and responds lit of the position. Why dose the CEO of any company have a nicer car and bigger house. Same thing. If the top guy and the bottom guy where even there would no reason to better you're self.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 1:55 PM

2016-06-02T13:55:47-04:00

I lived in housing in Ft Richardson and I didn't experience that. A better question is why don't officers take PT tests. Lol

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Jun 2 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-06-02T15:24:08-04:00

Wow, This post has uncovered new and exciting theories to unravel the mystery of societies inequalities. I just thought it was because we have better looking wife's'.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 3:35 PM

2016-06-02T15:35:09-04:00

I must admit that my housing at USAF tech school was as nice, if not nicer, than my VOQ at Army OBC. The big difference was at OBC I had a room to myself, instead of a roommate. But the actual quality of the facility was better at Tech School.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 4:05 PM

2016-06-02T16:05:02-04:00

Which is why I have been in 6+ years, and pay my mortgage out of my Base Pay.... I am too old for the barracks BS....
Ironically, even with just Base Pay, I manage much better than the young (19-20yo) married (contract or "love") dingdongs I see coming through the clinics....

It should be "With experience comes privilege". A 22yo 2nd Lt has no more proven themselves than a 22yo PFC.... Single or married.....

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Jun 2 at 2016 4:20 PM

2016-06-02T16:20:51-04:00

The true issue for me as a retired NCO and now a GS employee overseas is this.....what we are talking about is FAMILY housing, NOT the housing of one service member versus another. As a GS employee I get a ridiculous housing allowance overseas. It is pretty embarrassing. What the current system is ....pure and simple.... keeping the "classes" separate. There should simply be a standard for acceptable family housing period. Don't like it? Take your fat BAH/OHA and go off post. It is disgusting to drive through field grade housing and see O4s and up with few or zero kids living in large (generally new) housing while THEIR soldiers (especially E4 and below) live on the "other" side of post in the "ghetto" that all posts have. This piggy backs on what MAJ Tisher had to say. Plain and simple....NCO or Officer....if YOU are living in sweet on-post housing and don't have a problem with your soldiers living in sub-standard digs YOU ARE A DIRTBAG!! You shouldn't be eating before YOUR soldiers get chow and you shouldn't be allowing your soldier's family to live like they aren't sacrificing JUST LIKE YOURS.

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Jun 2 at 2016 4:23 PM

2016-06-02T16:23:42-04:00

Back in 07 Marine Corps Base Hawaii built new enlisted housing while the officers housing probably dated back to the 50's or 60's.

Response by SFC Matthew Mason made Jun 2 at 2016 5:10 PM

2016-06-02T17:10:40-04:00

Officers have always been glorified and taken better care of. It is a fact that you just have to deal with in the military. No, in the NCO world, if you follow our creed, rank DOES NOT have it's privileges, it has it's duties and obligations to fulfill. When a unit full of enlisted personnel do something amazing, who gets the credit? The Commander. When it comes to housing and pay, the Officers have always had the upper hand. Why? They have "more education" than the enlisted. If you want the same pay and benefits, you should have gone green to gold when you had the chance. If you didn't, don't complain, complete your mission and drive on! I didn't enlist for the money, I did it because the nation needed fighters and I answered the call. Have a little Selfless Service folks. I did it as a SSG with 5 children living off post in a large home.

Throw your kit on, ruck up, grab your weapon and continue mission.

Response by SrA Brandon Jordan made Jun 2 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-06-02T17:19:13-04:00

Because they have put in the time to achieve a degree. More education gets you more in life.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 6:31 PM

2016-06-02T18:31:12-04:00

Officers get better housing because they have a degree and life isn't fair. We can complain until we retire, commission, or just ETS.

Response by CH (CPT)(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 7:43 PM

2016-06-02T19:43:07-04:00

A better question is: Why is Air Force housing so much better than Army? And if Air Force live in Army housing, why do they get extra compensation?

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Jun 2 at 2016 8:04 PM

2016-06-02T20:04:40-04:00

Sorry, it is reasonable for officers to receive higher pay and better housing. A young college grad will presumably enter the workforce in a position with greater pay than a high school graduate. That same college graduate will continue to outpace in pay and benefits.

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made Jun 2 at 2016 9:26 PM

2016-06-02T21:26:18-04:00

As a CW3, recently retired, I've seen both sides. The BOSS program that came out in the late 80's (Better Opportunity for Single Soldiers) helped a major discrepancy in how single enlisted lived verses married enlisted. Housing was never substandard at any of the bases I lived, Fort Hood, Germany, Ft. Lee, Fort Gordon, and Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, plus others. I also spent a lot of time renting on the economy. The military has a rank structure, and there are perks to having a higher rank, just like there are perks in the civilian world.
The real problem I have is that you asked this question in a public forum. You are a First Sergeant in the US Army. This isn't something you should even need an answer to, but rather, something you should have the answer to for when an E4 asks this question. If asked by your soldiers, explain to them that they are free to become officers, or senior enlisted. The only one who will stop them is themselves.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Jun 2 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-06-02T21:36:18-04:00

Top they have an college degree as you know the NCO as the work horse and officer look pretty

Response by LCpl Chad Parson made Jun 2 at 2016 10:04 PM

2016-06-02T22:04:51-04:00

Wow, are we all just a bunch of special snowflakes now or what? It's posts like these from senior personnel (hell, even junior personnel, but I wouldn't be as surprised at their posting something like this) that make me wonder how proper it is for active duty military to be on sites like this.

From your profile, First Sergeant, you joined up right about the time I did, served in the same war as I did, and you've now had 25 years to mull over and learn the answer to this question. If you don't know the answer by now, maybe it's time to hang up the stripes and rejoin the private sector and find out why some workers rate better quarters than you do.

If I would have posed this question to any of my platoon sergeants back in the day, I guarantee I would have known the answer instantly and most likely painfully.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Jun 2 at 2016 11:09 PM

2016-06-02T23:09:58-04:00

I new enlisted personell that lived in housing that was oficially condemmed by the city of portsmouth.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jun 2 at 2016 11:12 PM

2016-06-02T23:12:40-04:00

It probably started out this way many decades ago and has just never been changed...like tons of Army processes. My 2 cents.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 11:24 PM

2016-06-02T23:24:58-04:00

I agree completely, that PVT with 5 kids should have a house the same size as mine. 2 bedrooms 1 bath.. The 7 of you can figure it out. You get paid more based on number of kids because well you have more to provide for, where as if your a single SM you only have to provide for 1 and need less to do so. If you can't figure that out, is the military really a career you should take a stab at? I read McDonalds is paying $15.00 in California, you don't even have to make the food the way it was ordered!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 11:38 PM

2016-06-02T23:38:51-04:00

Same reason they get more money...RHIP!!!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2016 11:56 PM

2016-06-02T23:56:45-04:00

I have a hard time accepting that an E8 is asking this question. This isn't special snowflake land, or Bernie Sanders world. We have a rank structure, a pay grade, and perks that come with those. I bet you have a parking spot though don't you? Why do 1SG's have those? Again its perks of the pay grade or job if you will.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 1:05 AM

2016-06-03T01:05:49-04:00

Growing up on Fort Bragg 1997-2006 with a Field grade officer parent... our "nice officer housing" in Lower & Upper Normandy consisted of 3 feet of water during Hurricane Floyd, ant & termite infestations, in addition to checking my close toed shoes for Palmetto bugs. I can remember living at FLW while my dad was in ILE (1997), my mom made brownies and set them out to cool. She stepped out of the room for a few minutes, and when she came back there were multiple cockroaches who got stuck in the brownies as they cooled. My family of four lived in a two bedroom 900 sqft house at Carlisle Barracks for a year (2007)... I could go on about all the lame & nasty places we lived.

Now as an active duty officer, with the privatization of housing across the forces bases, I would get the same housing as a married E-1 with no children. It's been better for my husband and I to just live off post. It's not just officers either. My E-6 Platoon Sergeant at Fort Riley with two dependents lived in a four bedroom next door to one of our new, young & married E-2s.. I think the major issue that needs to be addressed currently is the lack of separation between junior Soldiers and Senior Leaders. My Platoon Sergeant should be able to have a senior NCO get together without HIS Soldier being about to look out their window and into his, and see all his leadership from work. As responsibility and time in service goes up, so does what you get out of it; there is a reason why the Generals get to live by Iron Mike.

All quibbling aside (my own included), at the end of the day Housing is really about taking care of families. I know as a military child I didn't care while I was living. The memories of bugs are funny now, the flood waters dried, the small houses were ironic, and the limited time spent sitting in front of the TV trying to help my dad shine his boots were priceless.

Response by TSgt Keith Mayo made Jun 3 at 2016 1:44 AM

2016-06-03T01:44:46-04:00

We have to remember that the military is a socialist and class system. Everyone is supposedly treated the same but we all know that is not true. We treat officers very differently than enlisted: Always have and always will. We all came in freely and of our own choosing. Most of us have re-enlisted yet we look past these issues and continue on with our career. The Military is not a republic nor is it a business but we are starting to change our structure to a business model. We lose some basic rights when we enlist and again, we choose freely. I was in 20 years ago and we (enlisted) were treated as we have always have been: second class citizens. We were paid less than our brothers & sisters are now with far less benefits. We have to salute an officer because that is a sign of respect. At least that was drilled into us. It shows a class system and a servant mentality yet I knew that and continued on to TERA and punched at 15 years. For the last 50 years, we have given our brothers & sisters the answers to the pop tests we are subjected to during an inspection. Pilots have memorized the eye chart when they were blind as a bat and the flight surgeon looked the other way. We called it taking care of our own but it is now frowned upon. Attitudes have changed. 35 years ago when I was in, if a foreign government tried to force us to land (See China 2003 Navy Plane) or pull our attack boat over (See Iran) we would have died before we surrendered. Today, surrender is kind of encourage if it means saving lives. So what's my point? We know full well what the military is yet we still serve. This is just another thing to bitch about.

Response by SGM Nathan Thomas made Jun 3 at 2016 2:52 AM

2016-06-03T02:52:56-04:00

With every rank there comes entitlements. I always say we choose our lanes and there is nothing denying us from seeking each rank/grade. When I was a SGT/E5 I had the chance to go to OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Never regretted it and if I had it to do all over again, I would have made the same choice. From lower enlisted to Senior non-commissioned officer, I never worried about where the officer lived and I loved my quarters and I chose my lane. Then, the other is how much does one get for BAH? You get more BAH and stay on post, then you get better quarters for your money. You live off post and you can get a better place according to the BAH you receive as a general rule. Our military is built on levels of responsibilities and entitlements. Why do SNCOs get better quarters than the junior NCOs? How come military personnel are not paid the same as civilians? WHY, WHY, WHY? I am sorry, I guess that is one of the reasons I am retired. The military is a way of life and if it is looked at as a job, then it is not the right profession for that individual. Do not like it, get out at the end of the term of service and make your life how you want and live where you can afford. The more I write the more cross eyed I get. Heck back in the day I remember when Air Force enlisted has dishwashers in their quarters, but Army did not. Air Force stayed in Army quarters, our quarters were considered substandard and they did not have to give up all of their BAQ. Let me stop writing as I have more than likely written more than I should have.

Response by SGM Nathan Thomas made Jun 3 at 2016 2:54 AM

2016-06-03T02:54:10-04:00

Response by Sgt Matt Chapman made Jun 3 at 2016 6:37 AM

2016-06-03T06:37:49-04:00

Living on camp lejeune when I was active...enlisted housing was definitely nicer than Lt.-Capt housing. After they tore down the old housing and rebuilt of course...

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Jun 3 at 2016 6:50 AM

2016-06-03T06:50:04-04:00

I don't expect the President or CEO or for that matter the VP of a major corporation to live in the same neighborhood as the worker bee's. I have never known an officer to start as and O6+ so I think they have lived in a few dumps themselves back down the road. Base housing has come a long way over the years and it sure beats those 3 story walk ups that were used as barracks and dependent housing in Europe and such. Be grateful as there are vets and others living under bridges.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 8:38 AM

2016-06-03T08:38:59-04:00

The obvious answer to this comes down to the rank and pay. So what they get better on-post housing.....get out there buy a house and make that BAH work in your favor if you are disappointed with housing distribution throughout the ranks. I purchased my home 3 years ago lived in it for a year and have rented it out ever since. Make you BAH work for you not some privatize company that takes your hard earned money.

Response by MSgt Tom Buglia made Jun 3 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-06-03T09:13:16-04:00

I started my second tour at Langley A.F.B. as an E-5. An E-7 lived two doors down and a Navy O-1( prior enlisted) lived across the street. We all owned our home, cost about the same, all received different housing allowance. I could see one rate for Os and one rate for Es.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 9:15 AM

2016-06-03T09:15:53-04:00

I think the people on here asking why a COL gets better housing than a PFC are the same people who want $15/hr min wage for everyone.

Response by SFC Jerry Humphries made Jun 3 at 2016 9:18 AM

2016-06-03T09:18:28-04:00

When I was in Germany I had a large
Family. The house that the Army housing office provided me was a 5 bedroom Mansion. I think my home their exceeded what was provide for many O6 and above. So I have no complaints. I do think housing for some JR grade enlisted needs to be improved.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jun 3 at 2016 10:00 AM

2016-06-03T10:00:39-04:00

On Schofield Barracks I recall that much of the enlisted housing was nasty, while for whatever reason the officer housing I visited was nicer because it happened to be new builds

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jun 3 at 2016 10:01 AM

2016-06-03T10:01:28-04:00

Lol, when I visited the Air Force base in Hawaii, I came away thinking the entire Army base (Schofield) was dilapidated :)

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jun 3 at 2016 10:07 AM

2016-06-03T10:07:23-04:00

What criteria are we using for "better?" I had the luxury of being a military brat in an Air Force family and none of the housing we had was "worse" than anyone else's. All of the housing was superb. I remember all of my USAF housing with fond memories. Best one would have been the house in the English countryside when dad was stationed at RAF Fairford. Navy? Navy bases are function first, people second. So there was little/no housing for ANYONE at Charleston Naval Base.

But to be fair, you DO get extra money to live off base, so what's the beef? I made out like a bandit living off base. I got paid to eat off base too, so that was a win-win all around for my wife and I.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-06-03T10:40:28-04:00

My kid is a SrA and has better housing than me. I'm at a base where SNCOs have the same or better housing than FGOs so I'm not sure what the "issue" is because I've been at bases where officer housing is the last to get upgraded because they are taking care of the enlisted housing first. If people want A1Cs to have the same housing as FGOs then please "get real". You can't compare the experience and/or education ... I'm so tired of reading how an E-3 should be compensated like a ..."fill in any officer rank".

Response by TSgt Daniel Wareham made Jun 3 at 2016 10:44 AM

2016-06-03T10:44:09-04:00

So someone with your obvious number of years in service is actually asking this question?? Why not ask why do SNCOs get better housing than Junior NCOs/non NCOs? Why do 1st Sgts get special treatment? Why do E-9s get more respect than E-1s?

SMH

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 11:10 AM

2016-06-03T11:10:47-04:00

When I was in Afghanistan there was a three-star living in a B hut three doors down from me. All the same in the box.

I think it's better to ask the question "why aren't we providing better housing for juniors" vice "why do they have it better than me." There's a reason I enlisted even after I earned my BS and continued to make a career out of the enlisted ranks. I like to keep my hands dirty and my nose out of politics. I've seen the crap commissioned officers have to go through and it's not for me. That's a personal decision I made for myself and I am very happy with it. If you are not happy with your living situation then do something about it!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 11:15 AM

2016-06-03T11:15:46-04:00

1SG, you have to look historically at the diffrences between Commissioned Officers, NCO's and lower enlisted. We are all paid for the jobs and skill level that we are at. I am content with my BAH for my current grade but if I want a nicer home I know I will have to get promoted. That's how everything in society works. The military is not welfare we earn what we make its not just handed to us.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 11:20 AM

2016-06-03T11:20:25-04:00

Speaking in terms of Ft. Stewart and USAG-Y, I can honestly say that is getting phased out. I've seen officers in places deemed "lower enlisted" housing areas and SFCs in "officer/senior NCO" areas.

That being said, it doesn't shock me in the least that Officers would get better housing arrangements, we're humans and therefore need some means of a class based system to separate us from others in order to further validate our station in life. This question is a can of worms because it can easily get bled into single vs. married housing arrangements; as we all know is a much more unequal battlefield.

Response by CPT Earl George made Jun 3 at 2016 11:48 AM

2016-06-03T11:48:09-04:00

It's after 1973 so my belief is that everyone who is in the service now "volunteered." If you don't like the pay or housing or whatever, then get out. The pay and housing are better than when I served. Most of the time I lived in a BOQ room. I doubt there is anyone on this forum who lived in a BOQ room at IGMR(Indiantown Gap Military Reservation) in Annville Pa. I did and you could see through the cracks in the walls and you locked your door with a padlock. Fortunately I had better BOQ rooms later on not because of my rank, but because of where I was stationed.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 12:16 PM

2016-06-03T12:16:25-04:00

As a prior enlisted, it always puzzles me when I see these types of questions. why do officers get better pay, why do they get this or that, etc. Seems that many enlisted members seem to think that officers don't really do anything except sit in an office and draw a check. I must admit that when I was an E4, I sorta thought the same thing, because you never saw the officers. After getting commissioned, I realized just how much officers really do. Almost every drill when the troops are released at the end of the day, the officers stay for another hour or two working on something. At least a couple of times a month I receive an email, phone call or text with some task that needs my attention prior to the following BA. A task that I have to work on without pay on my own time. As a logistician, I never ceased to be amazed at how many people seem to think that stuff just magically happens. They seem to think that I have this magical bag of stuff that I can just reach in and pull out whatever they need whenever they want it. Like some kind of greensuited Santa.

Response by SFC Patrick Mahan made Jun 3 at 2016 12:29 PM

2016-06-03T12:29:33-04:00

the question shouldn't be why someone gets better but why aren't they better . RHIP . get over it . the military knows how many officers and enlisted they will put on their bases . but they are skimping on housing to pay for other things . it will be decades before this problem will be fixed if it is at all . and then there will be something else to complain about . they need to have an independent group to make sure the military follows its own rules .

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 12:45 PM

2016-06-03T12:45:25-04:00

I was at the ID area last week on Keesler AFB and a group of new officers were talking about where housing has them. One of the officers said "he was staying in the enlisted area it was a nice house for an E5 housing." I wanted to tell him that all of KAFB housing are all less then 7 years old. But just left it alone.

Response by AN Rory Hoven made Jun 3 at 2016 1:49 PM

2016-06-03T13:49:08-04:00

Rank has its privlages

Response by SFC Raymond Burge made Jun 3 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-06-03T14:39:14-04:00

With all of you seniors entertaining this absurd question in open forum, I am happy I am on my way out. The Army has changed to much in certain areas for my taste. This was a conversation best held behind a closed door. We have failed ourselves and forgotten that, No one is more professional than I.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jun 3 at 2016 2:55 PM

2016-06-03T14:55:07-04:00

Of course RHIP plays a part. However, the reality is that most compensation is based on availability of resources or in this case people to fill the positions. You're not likely to find many recent College graduates who would be willing to move back into a dorm after just spending four years in a dorm. On the other hand, their are lots of young High School graduates willing to move out of Mama's house into a dorm.

Response by AN Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 3:16 PM

2016-06-03T15:16:26-04:00

I live in a barracks and I enjoy it. There's a couple of cockroaches here and there and the washing machine breaks frequently, but it isn't about nicer housing, it's all about perspective, I came in as an E-1 and I didn't think for a second that I was going to live in a mansion, you have to work hard for something like that.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jun 3 at 2016 4:12 PM

2016-06-03T16:12:04-04:00

For those disgruntled with what officers receive during their career, don't forget that gate was not exclusive. Just about everyone has an option to go to college, it just depends on how hard you want to work for it.

Response by SGT Alexander Hildenbrandt made Jun 3 at 2016 4:27 PM

2016-06-03T16:27:51-04:00

1SG Don Berry,
If you wanted attention, you got it. I wonder though if this was to spark controversy or this is genuine. If this is genuine and not an act of frustration out of a contextual situation then my position would be to attack your character and judgment as others have. Can you please clarify your position and why you said this? I will not respond but would like to see a leader of your position to be given fair thought and not ridiculed on reaction. Especially in front of lower enlisted and senior officers. This simple question without context and with this much negative feedback should strike you as embarrassing to your position.

Respectfully,
Alex

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 4:42 PM

2016-06-03T16:42:13-04:00

i can tell you when i was lower enlisted in Germany, our barracks were so bad that the air force personnel that did live on post were moved off post into apartments. not suitable for air force standards. the rats were so big they held their own formation. they knocked walls down and bats were everywhere you know somethings wrong when you would rather go to the field. I envied them but never went that route till i was in the national guard. but something really needs to be done about it. but back then the attitude was "rank has its priviledges"

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 5:46 PM

2016-06-03T17:46:40-04:00

If everything is equal, what's the point of trying to better yourself? I'm not saying any servicemember deserves to live in undesirable conditions, but you can't compare the two.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 9:37 PM

2016-06-03T21:37:01-04:00

Is that anything like the recent question..Why do officers get better government housing? RHIP.

Response by PO1 Rexford Dundon made Jun 4 at 2016 1:57 AM

2016-06-04T01:57:57-04:00

I don't have any experience with this. The only military housing I ever lived in was brand spanking new (my family and I were the first occupants after it was built), about 2 blocks from the Pearl Harbor commissary/exchange complex.

Response by Sgt Todd Meedel made Jun 4 at 2016 11:05 AM

2016-06-04T11:05:34-04:00

Until you achieve E-6 Married USAF airmen are not allowed to live in base housing.

Response by CWO3 William Hanrahan made Jun 4 at 2016 12:05 PM

2016-06-04T12:05:21-04:00

Perhaps I'm still archaic, but I'm not now and have never been a fan of first term enlisted members having wives and children. We almost lost our CMC, General Mundy when he said as much in 1992 and pissed off then First Lady HRC. Most junior officers are already older and educated, most enlisted are right out of HS and are not. They officer to enlisted ratio may vary by service, but officers are also far more responsible and accountable than enlisted personnel by virtue of law and the commission they hold. With that comes privilege. Things do become more equitable between the E's and the O's as some have already stated because they have earned those rights and privileges through years of service and increased responsibility. As a former MSgt who became a CWO, I've seen much of both sides and overall never had any issues. I also never lived on based because I never wanted to be a hostage to base housing office or related housing drama. RHIP has a place in the DOD and it should. If the E3 wants what the 01-03 have, then stay in school and earn the commission. However, there is never an excuse or justification for putting any military member, married or not, in substandard housing when in garrison; and we all need to remember that service in the military is to kill bad people and break all their stuff under the orders of the POTUS and with consent of the Congress, not to earn a paycheck and shape the DOD to look like we are employees of a Fortune 500 company and living in the burbs!

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Jun 4 at 2016 12:14 PM

2016-06-04T12:14:02-04:00

It is part of the compensation for making the Military a career.

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Jun 4 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-06-04T13:17:25-04:00

I actually believe it's a combination of several factors. First, the "rank has it's privileges" rule is true here to one degree or another. It's also true that some installations are behind the power curve when it comes to remodeling our building new housing. I know on posts that have newer housing, junior enlisted can get them, same as anyone else. It's just a question of whose name comes up first on the waiting list. At the height of the surge, the demand for housing was exponentially higher than the supply. They built what they could and renovated old stuff just to try to keep up. Now with the drawdown, maybe it'll level off. And of course, the housing is run by civilian contractors. They work on the cheap and let's face it, military budgets are getting tighter all the time. I'm not justifying anything; just making observations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2016 2:13 PM

2016-06-04T14:13:44-04:00

Here is why the college environment does not work in the military. If you want a room of your own, work hard and get the promotion. If you want to live in the Officer quarters, become an officer. You no longer have to live dress right dress, with room and locker inspections every morning before formation. We all signed a dotted line to join the US Armedd Forces, not for comfort, and not for riches, but for our patriotic pride, or at least I did.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2016 5:33 PM

2016-06-04T17:33:21-04:00

I'm well as a Captain deployed to Kiwait, I lived in Crap PCBs while I witnessed PFCs coming out of the brick buildings where they had private baths and cable TV. Why? Reserve vs. AD.... Only that was not the "reason" given by housing.

Response by SFC Bill Schmitz made Jun 4 at 2016 5:46 PM

2016-06-04T17:46:10-04:00

Rank has it's Privilege! But as a NCO I always visited my subordinates on post and off post to verify that they had adequate Family Quarters, NCO's did this while I was on active duty.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2016 7:20 PM

2016-06-04T19:20:15-04:00

If you split your BAH, you can all live equally.. Or wait, it's good until you are the one they take money from their BAH to make others better...

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2016 9:18 PM

2016-06-04T21:18:53-04:00

Same answer I gave to the previous post asking the same inane question: it's the same reason high school graduates don't have the same housing as professional college graduates.

Response by SgtMaj Anthony Goss made Jun 5 at 2016 1:27 AM

2016-06-05T01:27:54-04:00

What amazes me is the questions some people ask or the responses that are given. While this may be a valid question, a better question that could be asked of someone in a senior position (officer or enlisted) is what can I do to improve the quality of life for the service member in my charge?

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 7:38 AM

2016-06-05T07:38:15-04:00

Speaking as a former dependent, military housing is what the people living in it make of it! As for the quarters we drew, some were better than others but we never drew anything that wasn't livable.

Response by LCDR William Breyfogle made Jun 5 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-06-05T10:31:43-04:00

As an officer who also spent 17.5 years enlisted, I can say that -- while RHIP will likely never go away -- there are some privileges with rank that are not only NOT necessary (such as this expensive housing for senior officers who don't need it) but whole chapters of the UCMJ that prescribe severe punishment ONLY for enlisted troops. Equal justice under the law should BEGIN with equal punishment before the law.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 11:28 AM

2016-06-05T11:28:21-04:00

It's kind of odd that this should even be a question. Are you also questioning why the CEO of a corporation receives higher pay and better benefits than a mail clerk or other entry level position. It's part of the benefits of having served longer and worked your way up the rank structure with added responsibility also comes added benefits.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jun 5 at 2016 11:37 AM

2016-06-05T11:37:33-04:00

Simple. If you get paid more, expect better living accommodations. The better question should have been, why do junior enlisted have substandard housing?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 11:51 AM

2016-06-05T11:51:55-04:00

I think it's pretty sad, and shows just how undeserving a lot of the military leadership is, that you have people ridiculing you for asking this question at your rank. It's your job to take care of your people, and too many "leaders" forget where they came from.

I think it's pretty clear that you're asking about why junior enlisted often are forced to live in barracks, which are often substandard and generally lacking any maintenance or upkeep.

As an example, I lived in a barracks in Norfolk, where I shared a common room with 3 other people, hundreds of cockroaches, and asbestos insulation. Did I deserve this because I was a lower rank? Because I wasn't an officer? No, it's because the Navy didn't want to spend the money on improving the housing for lower enlisted. (They have since renovated this tower due to many people getting sick, from what I've heard)

The base I'm currently on has terrible housing all around. The barracks are like prisons, and the apartments for enlisted as well as officers are straight out of the 1950s. Even the base facilities manager told me that he'd never want to live on the base. So the problem isn't exclusive to lower enlisted, but it is much more prevalent.

If you believe that this man's question deserves ridicule, then it probably went over your head. If you understood it and still think that lower enlisted deserve to be in substandard housing purely to separate them from the officers and senior enlisted, then you should get out of the military now, because you're failing as a leader.

I'm not saying we need to fight for two bedroom suites for junior enlisted. But if you can look at a barracks and say "Wow, I'm glad I don't need to live there" then there is probably a problem that needs to be addressed.

All that said, it has improved a lot for junior enlisted as far as housing goes. Some bases even offer single apartments for juniors, but there are definitely improvements to be made in other areas.

Response by SPC Katia Pardo made Jun 5 at 2016 2:31 PM

2016-06-05T14:31:37-04:00

No disrespect 1SG but that is the same as asking why employees get paid less than the managers and both of them less than CEOs in the civilian sector. And why those employees get to live in the bad neighborhoods while their supervisors live in the suburbs and the CEOs in mansions.
Lower ranking soldiers like their civilian counterparts perform the brunt of the work and get compensated less. It's called societal standards and norms and we have been practicing them since the begining of civilization. The military just reproduces the same formula as the rest of society with the only difference that if you have more mouths to feed you get a little extra to level the playground with your peers who share the same step in the social ladder. Plus, if you really make an effort, you can climb the ladder and change your circumstances changing the compensation and your standards of living in the process.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Jun 5 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-06-05T15:41:40-04:00

1SG, (respectfully) here's what I told my guys when they asked a similar question about another person. Don't worry about what they have or what they're doing. Just worry about yourself and what you have, or are doing. By the way, perhaps if you looked around at the quality of life initiatives that are taking place (new housing, new enlisted quarters, etc.), you would see that things are improving quite a bit from how it used to be. If things are as bad as you think they are, then bring it up to your chain of command with a plan of action. Don't just sit there and point fingers.

Response by Cpl Kent Mitchell made Jun 5 at 2016 6:21 PM

2016-06-05T18:21:17-04:00

My "quarters" were barracks. Marine enlisted were told in boot camp that if the Corps wanted you to have a wife they'd issue you one. I took that to heart. Best move I ever made. A year after my EAS, I met a brunette built like Raquel Welch, but prrettier, and waaaay smarter than me. She also made twice what I did at the time. She inspired me to make a lot more of myself than I ever dreamed I could.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 6:40 PM

2016-06-05T18:40:27-04:00

Because this is a monarchy defending a democracy and rank has its privelages. If you want what the higher rank has, become a higher rank. Otherwise what is he point of working harder to elevate your status

Response by PO1 Greg Jones made Jun 5 at 2016 9:07 PM

2016-06-05T21:07:27-04:00

I was enlisted and I was in the Gulf War - the first one - and then I went to college for four years at night and got my BS in Computer Science. In the mean time I also ripped muscles off my spine so I got out after 15 years. But had I gone officer and assumed the additional responsibility then by God I better be sleeping on a softer bed than when I was an E-1 knowing nothing and having not proven myself!

Response by CPL Anne (Karpinski) Pfeiffer made Jun 5 at 2016 9:10 PM

2016-06-05T21:10:17-04:00

well then come look at my house at Fort Irwin (LTC qrts) built in the 1980s. and all the enlisted live in houses built in the last 5-10 years. our house is so drafty that my curtains move when it's windy. we have mismatched kitchen cabinets, and the list goes on.
why you asked??-- because RHIP!! after 25 years (prior enlisted), MANDATORY to get a Bach degree to make CPT and MANDATORY to get a Masters to make Major, and countless other expenses, time, deployments, schools, experience, etc... why should a buck private live in brand spanking new big housing? Let them serve a few years and move up in rank! just my opinion. and I served 10+ years as enlisted, and my husband did too before going to OCS!

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Jun 5 at 2016 9:19 PM

2016-06-05T21:19:34-04:00

I don't know about now but while I was on active duty Married lower enlisted we were encouraged to live off post. Unless you were E-5 or above it was next to impossible to get post housing. But also back then allot of married soldiers was on food stamps as well. Even with BAQ, VHA separate rats and wick and any thing else they could qualify for it was hard to make it month to month. So ya Rank has it's privileges but I never could figure out why the ones that needed support the most was left to their own devices with little or no guidance or help. When the private had financial problems they wanted to hammer him for it instead of helping him by getting into housing to start with or getting them into classes to run and balance a budget. I saw to many lower enlisted on their own for the first time getting in financial trouble and ruin what could have been a good career due to bad financial decisions. As an assistant squad leader we had a couple of privates receive disciplinary action due to financial issues in our squad and I fought financial problems my entire enlistment as well. So in reality I don't know about how things work now I truly hope things have improved.

Response by PO2 Nikolas Tillquist made Jun 5 at 2016 9:57 PM

2016-06-05T21:57:18-04:00

All ranks should get equal housing. We live in the same country; earn money from advancing in tier, not from housing.

Response by MSgt Michael Ballenger made Jun 5 at 2016 10:10 PM

2016-06-05T22:10:18-04:00

...simple answer: rank hath it's responsibilities - responsibilities that are earned through experience and education, and responsibilities that mean increasingly more impact on budget, mission, and the health and wellbeing of subordinates.

Along with those responsibilities go privileges. Personally, I don't think the pay our the housing make up for the difference in responsibility.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 8:59 AM

2016-06-06T08:59:46-04:00

Without "stirring the pot", I would say that the junior soldiers are typically less responsible and childish. Officer's usually have their home life a little more established than a junior enlisted service person. And someone with children should be living in a slightly better Living environment than what a junior enlisted should get. Til that junior enlisted learns to appreciate and take care of what they have, which shows maturity, which means that person would possibly be starting a family themself, or possibly be getting promoted.

Response by SFC Robert Bower made Jun 6 at 2016 10:19 AM

2016-06-06T10:19:49-04:00

I can answer that. .. Unless your an officer, your house on post will suck ass even though it's "privatized housing" what a fuckin joke! They were taking all of my bah for an 1100 Sq ft home on MCchord AFB. While a fuckin butter bar has central air 2200 Sq ft on Lewis North Fort!! Wtf ever, glad I'm retired from the bullshit!

Response by SPC John Decker made Jun 6 at 2016 10:49 AM

2016-06-06T10:49:06-04:00

It's my guess that officers administer the entire housing issue. The question, again in my opinion, should be; How would overall morale be changed if lower enlisted housing was more livable? The discrepancy in living conditions exists. The objective should be to provide valid, logical reasons why those discrepancies should be eliminated.

Response by PO2 Chris Wright made Jun 6 at 2016 11:08 AM

2016-06-06T11:08:04-04:00

RHIP? But even before we look at differences in housing, the government should look at equalizing pay. I never appreciated the fact that married service members received more in benefits than I did as a single person for doing the very same job and amount of work. Why should the government pay for a couple’s housing and leave a single man to come out of pocket if he wants to live off base?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-06-06T11:27:26-04:00

1SG Berry,

This is a great question, that I myself have wondered for years!!!

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jun 6 at 2016 1:00 PM

2016-06-06T13:00:52-04:00

Because there are more of them would seem to be a reasonable answer.

Response by SSG Michael Primm made Jun 6 at 2016 3:22 PM

2016-06-06T15:22:25-04:00

Probably the same reason when an enlisted soldier and a officer commit the same offense and one goes to the jail and the other doesn't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 7:30 PM

2016-06-06T19:30:15-04:00

My thoughts go to a different place as this topic continues. To every question there is a valid response. With that being said I applaud the 1SG for posing the question. I assume that it is and or has been a topic in his formation. However, with all due respect, the level of attacks this senior has encountered is ridiculous, moreso as it comes from his peers and seniors. This is the very reason why good order and discipline Is so badly compromised in the armed forces (collectively). Juniors witnessing this type of action among seniors is the very reason they themselves feel as though they can do it. To make matters worse its being done on a form of social media. Which by the way to some degree was designed for this purpose....sharing both knowledge by way of doctrine and experience. You gentlemen should be ashamed and embarrassed to call yourselves NCOS, OFFICERS, PROFFESSIONALS AND MORE THAN ANYTHING LEADERS. The product that should be emphasize on here is to ask questions. Gain the knowledge of other, at the very least pose a question and maybe, just maybe have your eyes opened up to a different perspective. Not beat down, criticized and made fun of. My words are not intended to offend anyone, instead help grow our own level of professionalism within our back yard. With the upmost respect to your grades and positions, I await your comments. Be blessed.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 7:42 PM

2016-06-06T19:42:23-04:00

Well Officers don't get quarters. Enlisted personnel have Barracks. They get BAH for housing. Now down range is a little different but about the same. I was enlisted and deployed to Iraq as a Sergeant and I got some good quarters. The officers got the same type but didn't have a Roommate. When I went to Afghanistan our quarters were the same as enlisted. Now the only difference was the Command Team who had quarters closer to the Tactical Command Center. Now the downside of being an Officer is we don't get as many people to just hang out with. We are limited to our Peers...as an Enlisted Marine, I could just about hang out with any one I wanted except of course Officers.

Response by SN Peter Stella made Jun 6 at 2016 8:28 PM

2016-06-06T20:28:08-04:00

If you want great housing join the Air Force- or man up. The problem is that we have too many married folks in the military to begin with. We should do it like some other countries. Mandatory 2 years for everyone that can serve and limited billets for anything more than that. Scrap the system of DEP and go back to a system of strikers that the way it was when my father a 20 year snipe served. If you were on NAS North Island you would not be complaining about on base housing- it was in good shape if you were lucky enough to get it. We had one guy in my shop that lived in an on base house and he was kind of a prick- and that made everyone else twice as irritable that he lived on base. Planes and Ships are priority one your in there to serve your country and that is an honor- one of the main reasons I hate stolen valor pricks is that they never had it so bad-

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 9:22 PM

2016-06-06T21:22:54-04:00

Best question ever! Just because we're lower enlisted doesn't mean we should have to live this way. When stateside I have a house that's nice heck but not being able to get command sponsored & having to come overseas & live in the barracks it's horrible.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2016 9:23 PM

2016-06-06T21:23:52-04:00

Everyone who is comfortable with our living standards can come live in my barracks while I live in their house/beq for a month and tell me how they feel after the month is up.

Response by CMSgt Mark Lewis made Jun 7 at 2016 12:18 AM

2016-06-07T00:18:18-04:00

Based on my experience in the AF, housing standards (square footage, #bedrooms, # bathrooms, amenities, etc) were developed based on rank and typical family composition. Obviously, standards of living have changed over the years so MFH built in the later years (50's, 60's, 70's) tend to be smaller then those being built in more recent years (no different then in the civilian market). This is also true with Housing Privatization programs today. As an example, currently at Eglin AFB, FL a private developer is building new military family housing that meets or exceeds the current AF housing standards. The homes being built meet certain square footage requirements as well as amenities according to rank (JNCO - E6 and below; SNCO/CGO - E-7 and E-8 and O-1s to O-3s; E9s; FGO - O4s to O5s; SO - O6s; and GOs). The good thing about the new homes are they certainly are a quality of life improvement for all ranks since the homes they are/were currently living in were all built in the 50's and 60's.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Jun 7 at 2016 8:49 AM

2016-06-07T08:49:37-04:00

To be honest , I think JR soldiers cause more wear and tear. Most JR soldiers are young and still learning how to live on their own. They are more prone to tare things up. Obviously this does not apply to all and does not mean they should automatically be housed in sub-par housing/baricks. There is also the problem that housing is no longer controlled by the military but by civilian contractors. It is next to impossible to get them to do proper repairs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 1:43 PM

2016-06-07T13:43:25-04:00

RHIP. Crappy answer, but true. Unless junior Soldiers have someone with authority (like a 1SG) advocating for them, they get quarters that would be considered sub-standard by higher ranking Soldiers. Then there's the other issue of junior Soldiers keeping quiet about the condition of their quarters because they're afraid they'll lose them and be forced to live on the much higher priced economy. You find that a lot in duty stations like Hawaii.

Response by SSG Michael Primm made Jun 7 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-06-07T14:57:02-04:00

I think the 1SG is asking why do lower enlisted live in such shitty conditions when those who can afford to move off post have such great accommodations. Putting soldiers first is crazy talk...ijs

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 4:47 PM

2016-06-07T16:47:33-04:00

After reading the original question and perusing the many post regarding the pay and benefits arguments, it really boils down to one thing, why is the Army using a substandard contractor to manage our housing communities? I live on post and my quarters are better than some of the officer quarters, but I also have junior enlisted living around me. That does not bother me. What really gets me is the lack of care giving by the contractors that will nickel and dime housing repairs in order to increase their profit margin. I had a major problem with heat throughout this past winter in which I consistently fought with the contractor and maintenance section. The problem has still not been resolved, and know as we transition into the summer months, I am having the exact same problem with A/C.
So to sum it up, it’s not the quality of housing, it’s the quality of the Army contracted housing managers.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2016 1:31 AM

2016-06-08T01:31:09-04:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member This is a good question. The dorms in Germany were ratty, WWI and II dorms. But to the active members now are the daily inspections and poor rooms, I can see why the younger troops are so jadeds.

Response by PO3 German Corea made Jun 16 at 2016 12:28 AM

2016-06-16T00:28:20-04:00

The answer is simple: privilege in rank. At least thats what my PO1 taught me.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 31 at 2016 3:45 AM

2016-12-31T03:45:50-05:00

That may depend on the base, On Hanscom AFB, MA a good portion of the old housing was torn down and replaced with hundreds of new units. This picture shows one of those Military family Housing areas on the Base. Units like this could be officers or enlisted. Some Senior Officers Such as General Officers, Full Colonels or E9s have larger units but nothing is substandard. Those that had been torn down, the oldest were from the early 60s and weren't terrible but needed substantial upgrades. One area from the 1950s still remains but has been completely renovated and was very well built when they were constructed. At least on this base major wear isn't a factor.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jan 5 at 2017 1:23 PM

2017-01-05T13:23:43-05:00

Rank does not always play a part as in Hawaii junior enlisted often had better housing on post than officers. I know first hand as I lived in a shit hole.